I don't think you know what you're talking about. Let me give you a *perfect* example what a company shouldn't do.



Both Creative Assembly (CA), behind the Total War game series, and Bethesda are companies and being a company without making money is exactly the same thing as a commercial suicide.

So what exactly is the difference between these two companies, well there is one major difference and what I'm talking about is how a game company communicate with the community. Bethesda released modding tools when Morrowind came out May 2002 and have done that since then, but do you think CA did that when they released Medieval Total War at the same time as Morrowind. No, CA didn't release a modding tool, because the game could easily be altered by editing .txt-files.



However, CA continue to ignore the community over the years, so what happen when Empire Total War came out 2009. Well, CA didn't even bother to at least try to release a modding tool to the community and http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?463622-Official-CA-comment-Total-War-The-modding-situation is their *disrespectful* apology to the community.

I would also like to point out that CA did release a modding tool for Shogun 2 TW and Rome 2 TW. Although, some modders are complaining about a broken modding tool for Rome 2 TW.

To my knowledge Bethesda has never failed to release a modding tool without at least try to fix the most pressing bugs (the navmesh bug comes to mind), but has CA done the same as Bethesda and again it's a big NO CA still ignore the community.

Also, keep in mind that the modding community have been fixing hundreds or thousands bugs that Bethesda were either too busy or didn't bother to fix. So you think that PC-users doesn't deserve a free upgrade of SSE.

I don't agree with the OP and other complainants here. Sounds like sour graqes to me. I know the sound. I made a lot when Bioware started svcking and EA made it even worse. Here, it's not only the point that multiple other people have made about who has done most of the mod work to date, that will be built on and to benefit console users..... for me it's more about simple business.

It's not your product. You don't have a right to have it and if you don't want to pay what they are charging you don't have to. Supply & demand. Biased to PC users? I used to be an EA customer, hated Steam, etc etc. One too many console (mainly since PS4 & XB1, but years before also) exclusives that I and other PC users often had to wait and pay extra for.... Oh, not to mention the farces of that became of the DA and ME franchises. Millions disagreed with me. So I simply voted with my wallet. You should too. Much better for your mental well-being and general health.

You've totally missed the point and I've spelled it out several times. Re-read my posts.

I also do not see what relevance your post has to the piece of my post that you quoted.

In fact, other than mentioning that modders fix bugs, I don't understand any of your post.

Speaking of which, you know that the Unofficial Patch will disable Achievements/Trophies, right? Might mean nothing to you, but yeah, that's you as a PC gamer. In my circles, that's a red flag. So all that hard work of modders is for almost nothing on consoles.

@ShinsFortress : Read the thread. Especially the last 30 posts, as the first couple of pages got a bit mired down due to certain... elements.

I've read chunks of it, but I'm not going to read the whole thing. In either case, I was replying to the point initially made. I'm sorry you feel so upset. I really have 'been there' and strongly advise you to adapt and move on. It is unlikely you will do so from my say so however I felt honour bound to try and help in addition to answering the post. Good luck getting what you feel you 'deserve'.

I appreciate the sentiment, but as I've explained in this thread, my actions in October are unimportant.

I'm happy to pay for the game, IF the PC users pay also. I'm happy to get the game for free, as the PC users are doing so. I'm happy if they split the difference and charge everyone $30/￡20.

What I don't like is the disparity, and that's why I'm here.

It'll take masses of gamers to vote with their wallet to bring about any change, or it'll require a huge internet and social media backlash, the likes of which only highly popular YouTubers have the influence to make happen.

Either way, I'm here to not only make a vigil until release, but to address any counter-arguments put forth. Nobody would want their free game taken away, but it isn't their's yet and there's still time to change it. The current backlash I'm getting on these Forums is understandable, but ultimately, they cannot deem all PC users (who purchased the game + DLC) equally worthy of this freebie, and thus, they cannot justify the action. Also, no remastering is worth full price again. You could get away with it at the turn of the console gen, but not anymore.

So, that's why I'm here. As for what I'll be doing in October, I can guarantee I won't be playing Skyrim at any rate.

Then why are you making such a big fuss out of it? You tell me that I'm "out to argue" again and again, but the only person actively arguing is you. I don't know what it is you are trying to achieve. I think you are already noticing that you are not getting a lot of support here, if any.

This is where I get puzzled. "They" are not obliged to "justify" anything. It's a product and it's Bethesda's. They can give it away to who they like and they can sell it to who they like. There is nothing for them to "get away" with, it's their toy and they can lend/sell it to whoever they want.

You are 100% sure that you are not going to be playing Skyrim but still feel it a good use of your time to hold a "vigil"? *blink* Spooky. I've been there too. I honestly hope you don't permanently stay stuck in that mindset, whether or not you play Skyrim. In any case, good luck with your 'vigil'. I suspect you're going to need it. In any case, there's a limit to how many times one should need to make a point and I've reached mine here.

END OF LINE.

Firstly, I never said they were obliged to justify their actions. I just said that all reasons given so far are not adequate enough to justify what they are doing.

As for getting away with it, that's more due to consumer apathy and the status quo. It doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged.

The "vigil" is for the benefit of like-minded people who find out about this in the months to come, or feel a need to check up about it between now and then. Plus, they may feel intimidated by the strong opposition from PC community. I can easily defend myself and hold my own here, and in doing so, I hope I can allow for others to come forward to say the same as I have done.

If nothing else, my presence will attract some attention over time. Even if I seem to change nothing, if I help even one person to rethink their stance or be more vocal about their opposition to actions like this pricing disparity, then I'll consider it time well spent.

Jim Sterling isn't going to be interested in this, Mighty No.9 was a story of a Kickstarter going wrong, Deus Ex was about the BS pre-order nonsense, anti consumer stuff that people are interested in. Why do you want to mess up a good thing for some people because you can't have it? do you realise how selfish you look?

Why don't you wait until the price drops? there'll be more mods available then too, many people will have played Skyrim to death anyway so I can't see it staying full price for long.

Yeah, this isn't me acting purely out of self interest.

This is a consumer issue, and just because some people could be seen as benefiting from it, doesn't excuse the crappy reasoning behind the decision. Something you'd appreciate if you actually paid attention to what Jim Sterling says.

And as for DX:MD, the preorder stuff was an issue, yes, but there's equally bad stuff happening to the game right now, and yet the closest current criticism Jim has done about it was in one of his Weekly BS Roundups.

Anyway, yeah, don't make assumptions regarding my motivations here.

The pricing for console players is fair. If Bethesda offered free 'upgrades' to console players, those players could simply borrow or rent a copy of the game, or buy a copy for $5 and get a free game for their effort.

It's not a consumer issue, Bethesda are selling a product with no hidden catches and no pre-order shenanigans, that product will come with tons of free DLC in the form of mods, that's far more content than you'll get with other remasters. What they do on other platforms is nothing to do with you, other than it'll help provide you with more free content. Not only are you being selfish, you're also being childish, it's like the kid next door has a bag of candy and you haven't, now you're stamping your feet demanding your own bag of candy or that someone takes his away.

You couldn't be more right, but in the OP's eyes the gaming industries and especially Bethesda are "unjust" towards console players for making a clever marketing decision. Pretty much every person seems content with that decision, but the OP is whining, because they are negatively affected, despite the positive outweighing the negative. Yes, that is incredibly selfish.

The reason you can defend yourself, is because everyone around has been kind so far. I'm not them. I'll put you against the real question:

For the past 2 years and more, my skyrim experience has http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/774931658034472879/C1E17D8D732B5862C9FF9DDCBBB88B7A0CB2D9D8/. http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/774931658034475147/7815D7DD540A2E569387822E4E6976FD7DB724A6/

Let's say you're Bethesda for a moment. Convince me to buy SkyrimSE on PC, make me buy what I already have, through the work of too many people to fit in a single post and for which I can't be thankful enough. Make "me" and others, pay for it AND port whatever mods I may have authored for PC to consoles, out of the goodness of my heart. Go ahead, be that salesman and pull THIS off.

What happens in reality, is that no PC player in his right mind will buy it. And at the same time, without "us" (I'm not a part of the modding community, spare a couple of plugins I made for myself and posted afterwards) no mods on consoles for the next 2 years or more. They can't sell it.

If your definition of "ability to defend" is talking about "mighty Altmer" as you already have above, or employing the old "if you don't need it, don't buy it" argument (which by the way, also applies to you) yeah, you've defended yourself

Seriously, sell me the damn thing.

Op I'll ask again: what the hell do you want? You have gotten a myriad of plausible and acceptable answers and you shoot everyone down with a paragraph about why you're justified in thinking this is wrong. Either you accept it or just move on? This is tiring. You're tiring. I'm done opening this thread because you're quite possibly the most difficult person to speak to on this planet.

Ibis......no hes not. When I want to be "I " can be the most difficult person to talk to on this planet.....and I have a right to defend that title


However, you must remember that everybody has a right to an opinion and a right of reply.....at least in civilised countries.


In your frustration, you are becoming rude, which thus far the OP has not. I say this even though he made no friend of me either.


I have my own opinions on the issue at hand. They have been voiced elsewhere and I see no value in adding to this directly......

Not even close. Obviously not married......

I'm sorry. There are bigger fish to fry in this world of injustice than whether a video game company should have decided to give a remastered game away to PC users in order to spur more mod creation to support console sales.

A video game company making a decision designed to bring in a profit is not an injustice.

Being married for about 26 years, I laughed out loud when I read this. It is soooooooooooooooooooo true on so many levels.

it doesn't even mean anything to most console players dude, its not a PC gamer thing (and fyi, PC games have achievements to, via Steam UPlay or Origin.. UPlays may be somewhat worth getting simply cause you can use the points to unlock stuff)..


I used to live Halo 3 back in the day on my XB360, I had a group of friends I would get together with on Friday nights and play some infection custom maps, and not a single one of them cared about achievements.. when i joined a buddys group to play through the campaign, no one cared about achievements..


I can only think of one time I ever saw anyone on that game who even slightly cared, I was playing Free-for-all and these group of people were lining up, so I killed them with a single shot from the rocket launcher.. next I heard the voice of some young kid shouting "stop, we're trying to get the Spartan Laser Achievement!", to which I simply responded "there is no stopping in a war zone, its not an achievement if you don't work is it?" which caused them all to drop out of the match (giving me victory by forfeit)..



I have plenty of friends who game solely on Consoles (i play on both consoles and PC btw), and none of them give a single care about achievements.. see, we don't feel we need a "participation sticker" to tell someone we did something cool in a game, we just go "hey, you'll never believe when happened to me on my game last night"..



EDIT: not trying to be rude here, if it comes across as such i apologize

I agree with funnybunny about achievements not being a PC v console thing. I thought achievements were annoying (because of the popups) and stupid long before I ever even thought about switching from console to PC.

I play Xbox 360 and PS3. This I what I care for achievements


My Xbox does not seem to have shown up an "achievement" for months......thank the gods!


Listen....all those "achievements" are arbitary....meaningless.


So what if it bestows upon you the accolade of "Dragonslayer" or some such after say 30 Dragon kills.....well why did they not make it forty kills or only twenty or maybe a nice round one hundred hmmm? Its arbitary! Valueless!


The best one I have ever seen is printed on a Tee shirt.....

"Achievement Unlocked 100G Left the House"




Edit.....Oh yeah,......not to mention.....its pretty damn immersion shattering too.....reminding us that our special world is to some...a mere toy

Then WHY did you started this thread in the first place. I'm curious to know why.

You're not coming across as rude at all, so don't worry about it.

Speaking on Achievements, most people who do feel the need to get all Achievements, tend to not admit it due to the stigma associated with any kind of pointless obsession. I've already covered my opinion of how Achievements are terrible in that other thread, and I'd copy that over here if I didn't think it'd make my post way too huge, so here's the link :

http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1603808-fears-and-hopes-regarding-special-edition/page-2

I'll respond to that thread after I'm finished here and go and get myself some dinner. @_@

Also, a lot of people tend to boost in pre-organised sessions, especially if they need lots of people or if it can only be done in Public/Ranked Matches.

Halo 3 was quite a while ago. What year was this experience of yours btw? I bought my 360 in August '08 and didn't start meeting proper Achievement Hunters until late '09 at the earliest, back when we had the original NXE. I'm not sure how the community has developed and grown on Xbox over the years, but I know for a fact that the novelty has worn off for the masses as you get far fewer "noobs" trying for Achievements these days.

Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked, I could talk about this for hours.

@Jim_UK : "What they do on other platforms is nothing to do with you..."

We're all part of the same community, in the same industry, playing (mostly) the same games, yet due to my choice in platform, I (and millions of others) have to pay where others (again, arguably millions) do not.

THAT IS a consumer issue, irrefutably so.

@fantasyjunkie/Turija : "We're all part of the same community, in the same industry, playing (mostly) the same games, yet due to my choice in platform, I (and millions of others) have to pay where others (again, arguably millions) do not."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injustice

@Thibs : Yeah, and PC users are doing and have done exactly that. Not everyone has friends to borrow from, and I'm not referring to that here, but the issue with buying it in a sale and then getting a free game, is a valid concern imo. Buying things in a sale isn't a platform exclusive issue.

@Leonardo : Read my first few posts on this page.

@Atkara : Saved the best (most detailed) until last.

"What happens in reality, is that no PC player in his right mind will buy it. And at the same time, without "us" (I'm not a part of the modding community, spare a couple of plugins I made for myself and posted afterwards) no mods on consoles for the next 2 years or more. They can't sell it."

Except they could sell it regardless of mod support, and banking on a veritable plethora of mods being available from pretty early on post-release is foolhardy, seeing as no community member or consumer is obligated to release anything for them.

This is Bethesda's error. They should've just done a low key release for $30/￡20 and waited. Instead it's "WOOO! AMAZING REMASTER WITH ALL KNOWN PC MODS AND IT CAN BE YOURS FOR JUST $59.99! COMING OCTOBER '16!!.

Yeah, they screwed this pretty bad as far as marketing goes, making promises they simply cannot guarantee that they'll keep.

So, you're right, I can't sell it to you, but then again, I shouldn't have to. The fault lies squarely with Bethesda here, and the way they've gone about the whole affair has been awful so far. Treating your customers like this is mind-boggling, and Pete Hines needs a punch to the groin.

Interesting that when I came online I had 7 Notifications for this thread.

Well, at least we're making progress.

Well its more amusing than whats on tv atm fer shure