Man, you could at least try to debate the points we bring up.

Anyone else who wants to ditch the troll now, say "Aye!"

The MQ of daggerfall was good and offered many choices. That was simply a better made story (perhaps not better written, but offered more options) but that really has little to do with it's validity as an rpg. The fatc of the matter is that Daggerfall essentially punished you for playing anything but a fighter character, making the "RP" aspect of it pretty moot.

Exactly my point, there is no "true definition of" RPG. But there is a literal meaning for role p[laying game, and Skyrim conforms to that standard, it just isn't an RPG in the same ways as dagger or arena.

An RPG isn't defined by its battle system. It's always been an action RPG.

I'm not going to get into the "here's what I want in an RPG so I'll label anything that doesn't follow my ideas as not a true RPG" discussions.

My first RPGs were on the SNES with games like Secret of Mana and Final Fantasy VI (then called III in the USA). To me the similarities between those and the TES games are obvious, even if the game worlds and play styles are wildly different. It's true they all branch out from the old pen-and-paper games but they should not in my opinion be restrained by some weird set of iron clad definitions.

Useless argument is useless.

The OP is wrong by industry, public, and practical definitions. If he wants to call it something else, or try to assume what Bethesda's motivations are, then he can go for it. It really makes no difference.

There is nothing more to be said of any value beyond what has already been stated about the TES series.

Skyrim is easily equal as an RPG to Morrowind or Oblivion with it's features. Even though Skyrim doesn't have attributes that doesn't make it less of an RPG. Skyrim will be using a perk system meaning we'll have plenty of choices and options, actually even more options then what Oblivion had.

You are a moron. I've been here a lot longer than you and I've never trolled. Stop being a drama queen.

I think a lot of the elements that Skyrim is incorporating are different from previous games. I'm just looking to get folks perspective on this....it seems most folks are pleased wtih the changes. So there you it, I"m in the minority. Games today, not just TES, are getting further an futher away from being challenging. They are looking for instant gratification and instant stimulus for their customers. That's cool. I'm happy for everyone that is looking for that. I"m done...sorry to have started an uproar. Good luck.

People are getting to caught up in thinking that an RPG has to have lots of attributes. Baldurs Gate 2 and Fallout 2 for example only have a handful; the PlayStation 3 exclusive, Demon's Souls has like 12 different attributes the player could put points into, I guess that makes Baldurs Gate and Fallout, streamlined action games? like someone else pointed out, an RPG is defined by more than just stats and numbers.

OUCH! That hurt. Your subtlety is gone now, you can't deny that your now at the point of arguing.

Just PLEASE stop subtly pretending that your opinion is fact by saying that you "don't blame Bethesda" for wanting to make money, etc.

In action games each character is generally the same and have a very limited/linear moveset. In RPGs the character can take on a variety of different skill sets and modes. Zelda is an action game. Skryim is an RPG

Agreeing with this.

Skyrim for those trying to keep count has at least 80 different spells. And it hasn't even been revealed yet what sort of armor and weapons there will be and how varied they will be.

If it's a game where you role-play as the main character, it's a role-playing game.

Combat, stats, menu screens, level gains, etc have absolutely nothing to do with whether a game is an RPG.

One thing, here is a post that pretty much summarises my argument :

All of the prior TES titles resonated around their core combat/action elements. Virtually every stat, skill, and attribute was designed to contribute directly to combat. Actual gameplay itself was mostly going from A to B and fighting someone at B for McGuffin C. That Bethesda included an incredible wealth of detail on their created word of Tamriel, and offered players incredible customization over their characters, is nothing but one incredibly massive plus to me. That Skyrim is increasing the uniqueness of each character through perks, as well as making the core combat much more interesting and intense, if one of if not my most anticipated part of TESV.

So, pretty much, the oblivion combat system wasn't that good. All the ES games have been about the combat - name one stat or skill in an ES game that wasn't directly related to combat, besides maybe alchemy, which could've been used for invisibility and stuff like that. They have all revolved around their combat. That is why they are an Action RPG . In Skyrim, all they have done is to take away the decision of making your character at the begining, and making it so that you choose it over time, by evolving your character. They have also taken out the reliance on numbers in a computer, and given you more control. I don't see what they are incorporating that is different from the other games that makes it less like an RPG, really, only more like an RPG. And to your other point on instant gratification, ever since Morrowind this has been happening ! In Morrowind, you had the Silt Striders that would take you were you wanted to go. I have always hated the instant travel, and never use it personally, but that is a personal choice. I don't see how being able to skip the "boring bit" were you're just walking inbetween towns is not RPG like. This is my 2 cents, and I'm leaving the thread now.

You don't support your cause with name-calling. It's also nice to know that you've already played Skyrim and know that it won't be challenging.

Thanks. That makes everything you say in the rest of this post so much more believable.


Ah yes, your seniority makes me wrong. Yet trolling is exactly what you're doing, whether your "I don't want to fight" clauses say otherwise or not.


Indeed they are. As they have been in every Elder Scrolls game compared to the last. This is how every sequel should be, whether or not the prequel was perfect.


You've gotten it. We've gotten yours, though little else.


We are. You haven't put forth much effort to understand why, it seems.


Oh boy, this is where your post gets stupid. And this is why I'm responding. I was cool with the moron statement, it just made you look immature. Here, though, you need to explain. How is Skyrim going to be less challenging? Tell me why. How are games in general less challenging? Tell me that too.


300 hours of gameplay is not instant gratification. 50 perks chosen over the course of the game, trees no less so there are prerequisites, is not instant gratification.Why is Skyrim aimed at instant gratification? Tell me why, don't just state it.


Don't lie. It's not cool. Thankfully it's not true either. I await your reasoning before I tell you why it isn't.


No you aren't. If you were you would have never made this thread.


I hope you're not done. You've left more unanswered questions than you started with, and from what I can tell a less than positive public image.

People are just having a really hard time getting pass this because that is what they are use. I am old school myself, I grew up playing RPGs like the Japanese iteration of Wizardry and fell in love with games like Daggerfall, Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld, Baldurs Gate, etc. But it's unreasonable to expect that the game industry remain stagnant. I like that we are getting a more immersive game where there is less focus on worrying about min/maxing stats. This is for the best and I think once people actually play Skyrim, they won't care.

If that were true then every single game in existence is an RPG. In Gears you are Marcus, in Halo you are Master Chief, etc, etc. You need to review your definition

Frodo67, I like you. I've agreed with everything you've said thus far.

It seems everyone here has their own definition of what an RPG is, some looser, some tighter.

Just for the sake of cohesion, and having a common starting ground, what do you think is the most important core of an RPG? This is an open question to anybody.

To me, it's the ability to make my character, make decisions that have lasting consequences (whether in story or in combat, in my in-game reputation, etc...), and attach a personal story to my character. In short, it's that feel that my character is a living, breathing, unique being that has his/her own thoughts and opinions, and always feels like they're on the edge of sentience. It's like reading an incredibly good book, where if you met that character in real life, you could say, "Hi Jordan! How's Kara doing these days," and they would answer.

If you declare Skyrim is an action game then be prepared to give specific examples. It's baffling as to why you can't provide any support to your argument and instead you simply cower under "it's my opinion, man."

Skyrim may have incorporated more action game elements along with other different kind of video game elements, but it remains a role-playing game in almost every facet from character customization to every choice given in a quest.

Spot on in my opinion. I've seen a lot of threads around here talking about how Skyrim is going in the wrong direction but I haven't seen any specific examples and those who bring up points that say Skyrim is still a pretty deep RPG are either called idiots or just ignored. I think the camp that wants to complain about Skyrim doesn't have a lot to stand on.

An RPG is 1)Controlling your character at all times such as dialogue, combat, progression 2)Allowing for diverse character progression choices. There should be a breadth of possible characters to play in the game that become more unique through progression 3)Diverse item set. You should have as much diversity in your items as you have over your character (extreme)

I could be missing something

Pisa50 what is your definition of an RPG?

Character development. This includes a bunch of things, though.

• Choice of path through the game, or morality
  
• Choice of play style (mage, warrior, etc)
  
• The ability to grow in power as a character, not just through equipment
  
• To a lesser extent, character customization like face and history

Basically, anything that allows you to develop a character to match what you want to be, with restrictions. The last one is key for roleplaying, not for being a roleplaying game. So I define games like The Witcher as RPGs, even though your character has a set background and face, because you can choose a combat style, make decisions to align yourself to certain people, and get noticeably more powerful throughout the game.

I'd probably strike morality. Morality tracking is absent from a great number of RPGs

Honestly guys, I don't really care what y'all want to argue about, but just don't insult the other side personally.

And for those of you on the other side, don't insult the guy for insulting others. Just ignore it/report it.

Did you hear that Horkers are in, Ratwar? :hubbahubba: