First off, a disclaimer....I'm not bashing or putting anything down, just calling things like I see it and would like opinions on it. Please be respectful.

I've played TES games since Arena. The series has obviously taken a turn since then. There are many things that Beth has improved on and numerous things that they have changed in order to evolve this series from an RPG to an action game. With the changes to Skyrim being what they are, it's hard to disguise that this series has now evolved from an RPG series to an action series. I'm not putting Beth down, they are doing what they need to in order to make money. What I get frustrated with are folks trying to fit Skyrim into an RPG box. It's not an RPG. Beth is evolving, along with their customer base, and marketing their game to folks that can button push to accomplish their goals. The lore, the depth of play is officially over. It was going that direction after Oblivion and after seeing the changes for Skyrim, I think the transformation will be complete. Again, not saying anyone is wrong here, I just think people should call it for what it is. Skyrim is an action game, not an RPG. Accept that fact and a lot of the short comings, will be easier to swallow.

Can you explain how it makes it an action game instead of an rpg? You never got to that point, just saying over and over how Bethesda is turning the other way.

Also guys, this discussion interests me so no flame and flame bait like the OP is suggesting, I assume. please, i don't wanna see this get locked...

I understand your point but I heartily disagree, While it's true that TES has become a lot more action oriented, There is still a lot of depth in the lore that all add to the foundation of the game world, and there is still a lot of Role playing to be had, people can still create characters, evolve them, attatch backstories and specialise them. I'd say its fairer to call it an Action RPG, a hybrid of the two.

yea what he said

You're entitled to your opinion.

I'm still going to RP in the G.

All opinions.

It seems everyone's definition of the genre is changing, the fact of the matter is, just because you're particular definition of RPG doesn't include Skyrim, doesn't mean it's not.

If The Witcher is an RPG (and I've never seen anyone doubt it) then Skyrim is an RPG too. Less of one than its predecessors? Maybe, but still more RPG than pretty much every new RPG.

Maybe if you actually defended your claims I'd have more to argue against.

Was about to ask the same thing. Instead of giving vague points like lack of depth, put some depth in the context of your post and tell us why it is no longer an rpg and now is an action game.

Skyrim is 100x the RPG Arena could only hope to be. In comparison to Daggerfall-Oblivion, I see nothing to make it less of an RPG, either. There are factions, there are the skills, there are the customizable gear combinations and upgraded armor/weapons, there are books and lore (How did you ever come up with the conclusion of no lore? Oblivion had more lore than Arena or Daggerfall and Skyrim certainly is having some lore of its own.), the specialization should be greater than ever with the limited perks per character, we've got options to do mundane tasks and even take up the role of a blacksmith (I've always wanted to do that.).

If the presence of entertaining combat is your problem, then stay away from game development. Improving on the combat aspect of a game is just improvement in its purest form. The action elements have ALWAYS been in the series. Just because they are now good doesn't mean the game is less of an RPG.

What I don't get is that saying an RPG is an action game. IMO, that's an oxymoron, doesn't all RPG games have action?

the definition of an RPG has changed since the DnD board games sorry, its an RPG.

You can play as whoever the hell you want. Good, bad, in the middle, male, female, human, lizard, kitty cat, elf, even an orc. You get to chose what you do and when you do it. There is action in it, but that doesn't mean it isn't also and RPG. Tell me what your definition of RPG is (and not rocket propelled grenade).

Meh....labels.

Todd keeps calling it "the biggest, craziest RPG we can make"

I trust Todd. Hes in charge of the game and knows more about the whole of the game than anyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zdQsnQhec :mohawk:
I don't really see skyrim as an action game even though you are dovahkiin you can't just rambo through the whole game.

So you're saying that if a game has action in it, it can never be classified as a RPG ever? K.

I don't care what the hell it is, IM REALLY REALLY EXCITED.

An action game gets you right into the "gunfights and explosions" from the very start of the game with very few breaks in the gameplay.

An RPG is slower paced with lots of exploration, focus on developing your character, and short action moments spaced apart.

This...

Atm I don't have any other arguments, but I think Luke helped seal the deal a bit.

Like a poster above said, you don't Rambo your way through things like GTA and the like. And like Luke said, well...

RPG= Slay the evil dragon!

Action= Get to da choppa!

Indeed. There is simply no concrete definition for what constitutes an RPG. And even if there was hardly anyone would be willing to follow it, since different people are inclined to attach their own personal feelings into the matter.
I once met a person who was adamant about the fact that no computer game calling itself an RPG could be defined as such, because aside from letting you build a character however you liked, you were still forced down certain paths in order for the story to progress. This lack of total freedom, in his mind, undermined the concept of the genre.

I can see your argument here, actually, and I would be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the mindset you're approaching this in. You can't strictly divide games into set classifications like action or RPG. Skyrim, as well as other games, can all easily be both. In order for an action game to succeed, there needs to be an element of RP that connects the player to what's happening in game, and likewise with RPG's, they all require a bit of action in them to keep them worth playing. You shouldn't just come out with a statement that Skyrim is no longer an RPG game just because to you it may look more like an action game- there are still RPG elements, and as long as people use it for RP purposes, it'll continue to be an RP game, though it obviously, is an action game as well.

Not trying to start a flame war or anything, but I think it's MORE of an RPG than the other games. Something that's always been lacking in the Bethseda RPGs for me is the actual RP bit. It was nice, but without mods you couldn't get your character to fit in if they were meant to be something more than just a killing machine. I f I wanted my character to be a blacksmith or a farmer before, then I couldn't. I was limited to RPing as some sort of warrior/archer/mage or combination of those. If you didn't want to kill something, there was nothing to do really. Also in Skyrim, there is no pigeon holing. If I start of as a mage, I could get bored and become some sort of fusion mage/archer, without the limits of those major and minor skills.

So can you please tell me why it's not an RPG ?

Nah, I'd say it's an:

Open World Action RPG. Its got an open world, it's clearly got action, and there's undoubtedly strong roleplaying elements. Certainly not a traditional on-paper RPG, but that doesn't mean its not an rpg in the literal sense.

The RPG term is a lofty one. If you see it as a strict adherence to tabletop-style stat grinds, then Skyrim no longer fits. But then, by that definition, a lot of modern RPG's don't. The fact is that stats, or really, numbers were used to extensively in the past because we couldn't illustrate these events in real-time. These RPG systems were first made when a bunch of guys would gather at someones house and literally tell stories that used these stats to randomize things a bit. When you can illustrate these things in real-time, you don't need them as much. Why put the emphasis in combat on numbers when you can put it on the player's actions? Bethesda is simply following the technology curve and putting more control in the player's hands. They're trimming the space between the game and the player each iteration and that is not a bad thing, by any means.

So is Skyrim a TRADITIONAL RPG? No. But it's still an RPG, because you're still playing a role, and you're still playing a game. Honestly, these kinds of debates are nit-picky at best, flame-wars at worst.

If Skyrim turns out to be more action than RPG like DA2 I will be severely pissed off.