Skyrim and Gods

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:22 pm

According to the UESP, this is the Pantheon of Skyrim religion:

-Alduin: Dragon God of destruction. Not much in common with Akatosh besides appearance
-Kyne: Much like Kynareth, except Kyne seems more warlike. Kyne is also the mother of the Nords. Wife of Shor
-Shor: Nordic version of Lorkhan, God of the Underworld. Betrayed and slain, but still influences the mortal world by sending immortal champions. Was also interpreted as a Warrior God.
-Ysmir: Nordic version of Talos. Could withstand the Greybeards mighty voice assault. Ysmir may indeed make an entrance, as it is said he much appeared like a dragon.
-Mara: Her role is somewhat diminished; she is a maiden of Kyne, yet still retains a motherly role
-Orkey: Counterpart to Arkay, more of a trickster this time. Cursed the Nords to a shorter lifespan
-Tsun: Died defending Shor. Likely no influence in today's religion
-Stuhn: Counterpart to Stendarr, though if there is a similiarity, it is not in compassion. Taught the Nords the value of prisoners of war
-Jhunal: God of hermetic orders, fell out of modern mythology, but that can always change.
-Herma Mora: Daedric Prince Hermaeus Mora. In Skyrim, Mora acts as an adversary and trickster, nearly turning men into elves -Dibella: Likely retains the role of Goddess of Beauty
-Maloch: Malacath, Daedric Prince. Orcish God, foe of King Harold's heirs, and almost certainly Skyrim.


Now we know that in Skyrim, we are not going to be worshipping these Aedra like your typical Romanized/Christian faithful would. But Nords have been known to hold superstitions and easily cower before magic, etc. How do you think religion will be handled in Skyrim? And what's more, what kind of role should they play? Wouldn't it be badass to see "The Dragon of the North" in all of his glory?
User avatar
Isabella X
 
Posts: 3373
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:44 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:59 pm

I fully expect the Dovahkiin to be a Shezzarine--an incarnate of Shor--to stop Alduin.
User avatar
Danny Warner
 
Posts: 3400
Joined: Fri Jun 01, 2007 3:26 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:44 pm

I fully expect the Dovahkiin to be a Shezzarine--an incarnate of Shor--to stop Alduin.


Well, my lore isn't perfect, but Dragonborn could be an incarnation of Ysmir, considering that he IS the Dragon of the North
User avatar
Sudah mati ini Keparat
 
Posts: 3605
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:14 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:40 pm

i am new to all of this stuff so this may be stupid. But do you think those gods will be the shrines in skyrim.. if there is shrines or are they always the same gods like sheograth and clavicus vile that get shrines
User avatar
Laura Cartwright
 
Posts: 3483
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:12 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:52 pm

i am new to all of this stuff so this may be stupid. But do you think those gods will be the shrines in skyrim.. if there is shrines or are they always the same gods like sheograth and clavicus vile that get shrines


You speak of Daedric Shrines, as opposed to the Gods, whom are Aedric. Understandable though
User avatar
Kelly James
 
Posts: 3266
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:33 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:42 pm

You speak of Daedric Shrines, as opposed to the Gods, whom are Aedric. Understandable though

once again stupid question. are aedra considered good and daedra considered bad or are they just different
User avatar
Queen of Spades
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:06 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:55 am

Well, my lore isn't perfect, but Dragonborn could be an incarnation of Ysmir, considering that he IS the Dragon of the North

It would be far more appropriate for the Dragonborn to be Shor. Shor is the natural enemy of Alduin. If anyone could stop Alduin, it would him.
User avatar
Jamie Lee
 
Posts: 3415
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:15 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:55 pm

I wonder the Imperial Cult will be in the game.
User avatar
Skrapp Stephens
 
Posts: 3350
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 5:04 am

Post » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:04 am

once again stupid question. are aedra considered good and daedra considered bad or are they just different



It would be far more appropriate for the Dragonborn to be Shor. Shor is the natural enemy of Alduin. If anyone could stop Alduin, it would him.



1) Aedra are typically defined as mostly beneficial towards mortals. Daedra can be beneficial, but also cause great harm and suffering. Azura is a Daedra whom could be considered 'good' by mortal standards.

2) Probably right. Still, I would LOVE to see the Dragon of the North in action
User avatar
Sudah mati ini Keparat
 
Posts: 3605
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:14 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:48 pm

1) Aedra are typically defined as mostly beneficial towards mortals. Daedra can be beneficial, but also cause great harm and suffering. Azura is a Daedra whom could be considered 'good' by mortal standards.

2) Probably right. Still, I would LOVE to see the Dragon of the North in action


1) Their true difference is in their nature. The Aedra refer to those spirits that participated in the creation of the world and are thus very heavily bound to it. The greatest among them, the eight divines of the old Imperial cult, draw power from the attention and worship of mortals, and are thus inclined to work to their benefit. Talos sort of got grandfathered in by taking on Lorkhan's divinity, according to one theory. Michael Kirkbride, who's written lots of lore for the series, has indicated that within Mankar Camoran's wildly inaccurate tinfoil hat rantings there is perhaps a grain of truth, in that the Aedra may not be so beneficent as they seem. The main plot of Skyrim seems to indicate as much, with Akatosh's apocalyptic side coming into play.

2) Ysmir is Tiber Septim, who most likely mantled Shor/Shezzar/Lorkhan to achieve his apotheosis. Ysmir can also refer to Wulfharth, who was himself an avatar of Lorkhan, and was probably absorbed into the Talos entity along with Zurin Arctus as a result of the Warp in the West altering history. So it would be impossible to be an avatar of either, seeing as they're both simply reflections of Shor now, kind of like how Alduin is another face of Akatosh/Auri-El.
User avatar
Vicky Keeler
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:03 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:50 pm

Aedra and Daedra are neither good or bad.
User avatar
Lily
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:32 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:13 pm

Aedra and Daedra are neither good or bad.


In a general sense that's true, but I'm certain most residents of Tamriel would classify Mehrunes Dagon as evil. Destruction can be a good thing (disturbing the soil by plowing it to plant crops, demolishing an old building to clear space for a new one, etc.) but Dagon tends to work on a "shatter everything, burn it, piss on the ashes, and then burn it all again" scale so there's not much that he's done specifically that could be considered "good," at least by most.

It's rather nice to see that this concept will probably play a role in Skyrim's main plot. I can only hope it's well-reflected outside of it as well.
User avatar
Lory Da Costa
 
Posts: 3463
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:30 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:21 pm

In a general sense that's true, but I'm certain most residents of Tamriel would classify Mehrunes Dagon as evil. Destruction can be a good thing (disturbing the soil by plowing it to plant crops, demolishing an old building to clear space for a new one, etc.) but Dagon tends to work on a "shatter everything, burn it, piss on the ashes, and then burn it all again" scale so there's not much that he's done specifically that could be considered "good," at least by most.

It's rather nice to see that this concept will probably play a role in Skyrim's main plot. I can only hope it's well-reflected outside of it as well.

Thats becasue they are stupid and dont understand what he does.
User avatar
Roy Harris
 
Posts: 3463
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:58 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:59 pm

Aedra and Daedra are neither good or bad.
Except for Shor/Shezarr/Lorkhan. He failed so that we know what not to do, and gave his heart to the world. Also, he hates mer, and that's pure good to the nth degree.

Also, the nords do hold Shor to the highest esteem, and I fully expect Shor to be quite relevant, as he is the other side to this conflict with Alduin. Also, as some have suggested, I hope the dovakiin ends up being an avatar of Shor, and has his heart ripped out of his chest, mimicking what happened during the world's creation.
User avatar
NO suckers In Here
 
Posts: 3449
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:05 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:49 am

Thats becasue they are stupid and dont understand what he does.


He assists a man with trapping the Emperor in the waters of Oblivion, steals an entire academy away into Oblivion, and tries to dissolve the barriers that separate Oblivion from Nirn so that he can lead an invasion to burn down cities and slaughter mortals in great numbers, their blood watering the soils of a new world, one of endless destruction over which Mehrunes Dagon rules with an adamantine fist.

So, yeah, they're well aware of what he does, and they don't like it.
User avatar
abi
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:17 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:55 pm

I hope to see Shor finally be the center of worship.
User avatar
Ysabelle
 
Posts: 3413
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:58 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:23 pm

I hope to see Shor finally be the center of worship.


Shor/Shezzar/Lorkhan is a "dead" god that has practically become one with Nirn itself. The Nords venerate him as creator and god of the underworld (in a sense) but nobody really worships him the way they do the other divines.
User avatar
Emily Rose
 
Posts: 3482
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 5:56 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:54 am

Shor/Shezzar/Lorkhan is a "dead" god that has practically become one with Nirn itself. The Nords venerate him as creator and god of the underworld (in a sense) but nobody really worships him the way they do the other divines.


I meant I hope (and I expect to) here them talk about (and venerate) him a lot, rather than forgetting him (and replacing him with Talos, who has Lorkhan elements) like the Imperials.
User avatar
Naomi Ward
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:37 pm

Post » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:12 am

I meant I hope (and I expect to) here them talk about him a lot, rather than forgetting him (and replacing him with Talos, who has Lorkhan elements) like the Imperials.

Agreed, and I have no doubt that they will. Shor is the closest thing to the chief deity of the Nords, and with Alduin coming to eat the world, who else would you turn to?
User avatar
Francesca
 
Posts: 3485
Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:26 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:02 pm

Destruction can be a good thing (disturbing the soil by plowing it to plant crops, demolishing an old building to clear space for a new one, etc.) but Dagon tends to work on a "shatter everything, burn it, piss on the ashes, and then burn it all again" scale so there's not much that he's done specifically that could be considered "good," at least by most.

I think Mehrunes Dagon has also been associated with revolution and starting anew. Basically, he's an in-game manifestation of Todd Howard.
User avatar
Josh Sabatini
 
Posts: 3445
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:47 pm

Post » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:08 am

One thing that worries me, though. Todd says they use the UESP (they said wiki, so I'm thinking they meant UESP and not the Imperial Library) for lore in http://www.oxm.co.uk/26165/interviews/exclusive-inside-the-elder-scrolls/

The UESP states of multiple pages that the Heart of Lorkhan is evil. I hope Bethesda knows the UESP is wrong here and doesn't treat Shor as evil.
User avatar
Nick Jase Mason
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:23 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:52 pm

One thing that worries me, though. Todd says they use the UESP (they said wiki, so I'm thinking they meant UESP and not the Imperial Library) for lore in http://www.oxm.co.uk/26165/interviews/exclusive-inside-the-elder-scrolls/

The UESP states of multiple pages that the Heart of Lorkhan is evil. I hope Bethesda knows the UESP is wrong here.


I know they use that as a reference, but I would hope they know that. Since they wrote the lore.
User avatar
Lily
 
Posts: 3357
Joined: Mon Aug 28, 2006 10:32 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:00 pm

I know they use that as a reference, but I would hope they know that. Since they wrote the lore.


I expect them to. Just a little paranoid.
User avatar
Kate Norris
 
Posts: 3373
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:12 pm

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:33 pm

I know they use that as a reference, but I would hope they know that. Since they wrote the lore.

Do we even know how many of the older (Redguard-Morrowind era) writers are still on board at the company? I know we still have senior artists and designers like Ashley Cheng and Mark Lampert, but the only writers I really know by name are Julien, Tedders, and Ken Rolston. They're all out, so...
User avatar
Frank Firefly
 
Posts: 3429
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:34 am

Post » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:58 pm

once again stupid question. are aedra considered good and daedra considered bad or are they just different


As I understand it, and as others have said.

The Aedra are the lords of creation, as such they are considered "true gods" they rarely get directly involved with the affairs of mortals and either can't or won't get directly involved with the daily affairs of mortal lives.

The Daedra are the lords of change, they don't actually create anything, they just change what's already there. As such they are not "true gods" but they are worshiped as such. They often get directly involved with the affairs of mortals in one way or another. Though they may sound annoyed when you summon them, the fact you can summon them at all is proof of this.

Both approaches have positive and negatives.

Aedra are akin to Jehovah, in that they're more about letting mortals make there own decisions, and the freedom to make there own choices. However they can be seen as distant, and uncaring. Which leads many to Daedra worship.

Daedra can show a concern for there followers, but they also see followers as some kind of possession and can use and abuse them as pawns or playthings.

The quest's Daedra set you on can often reflect how they feel about mortals.

Some of the Daedric princes have noble traits, specifically Azura and Malacath, who do show concern for their charges. Or Meridia, who's goal is to abolish the undead.

Other's are pretty much neutral on the subject, specifically Nocturnal, Sanguine, Peyrite, Hermaeus Mora, Namira, and Clavicus Vile to a certain extent.

And others you really have to look hard to find any noble qualities as they totally embrace "mortals are playthings to be stepped on" Hircine, Mehrunes Dagon, Mephala, Boethiah, and Molag Bal all fit this bill.

Sheogorath is a complete wild card, and trying to determine his true motives, is like trying to comprehend the meaning of life while on crack.

With all that said....The Queen of the Night Sky, and that sixy Daedra with the Scottish accent better damn will be in this game.
User avatar
Cool Man Sam
 
Posts: 3392
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 1:19 pm

Next

Return to V - Skyrim