http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1281966-skyrim-another-leveling-nightmare/



From cortic
can not believe they ruined this game.. I've been looking forward to this game for years, hoping it would be a fitting successor to Morrowind that Oblivion never was.. but again they ruin it

I'm standing in Whiterun, a level 16 Dark Elf, i haven't leveled up for a while as i was training in enchantments and blacksmith .. i level up to 33 .. and now EVERYTHING kills me .. as it turns out while i was training every one/thing else was training as well! I'm probably more than powerful enough to finish the game at level 16 but if i get any stronger the game becomes impossible.. what kind of stupid [censored] logic is that?!? Just the same as Oblivion i had to go through that game at a low level and as a result missed half the things in the game... but whats the point of leveling up if everything levels with you? This is not a role playing game as much as a rather boring strategy game, by this i mean my character can't advance in the role i wish only the game can advance... and its simply a matter of picking the right combination of constellations to be over powerful.. just boring.

on top of this the game is not designed for the PC, its designed for one of those cheap game stations, the mouse hardly works, the interface is woefully inefficient and the game hardly uses two of my six cores at any given time.. i bet it would run fine on my old Venice core...

Unless i find a mod that can make a good RPG out of this mess I'll be putting it up on eBay next week and going back to Morrowind. What a disappointment

I going to put my 2 cents here. Because of post limit from the original topic. My post from here down.

No way this is not like Oblivion that everything scales with you. Rrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiight.

This won't take long. I going to type to you about a story about two forts. Fort Amal and Fort Kastov.

There is only two common things about these forts. They are Forts and they have casters. Mages. There are throwing snows balls at me, flaming me and turning me into a cook fly who went through a bug zapper. That is the only common things about them. They are casters and they are in a fort.

But thier levels are different. In Fort Amal (next to a river the way to the Rift) I ran through them like a hot knife through butter, at Fort Kastov (which is near a Draedic Shine), I was getting owned. I am at level 23.


So you been levelling on enchantments and blacksmith but not actually using your weapon like sword or blunt or bow & arrow. So you play/level up solely on looks instead of practically.

So I am a lowly bandit with a rusty sword who knows how to use it and I see you with a shining sword and use it on me and gave me a little cut. Then I use my rusty sword and lobe your head off. Guess what I got for a bandit like myself who dose not know how to enchant a weapon but know how to use a sword. A shining sword next to a dead body with no head who used to be good making a sword pretty. Thanks for a sword, I will hang it up on my wall.

Fact is the enemies level with your character to an extent. How you level your character(or break it) is up to you.

tl;dr please?

TL;DR version:

"Skyrim svcks because it's a console port and everything kills me because I leveled up enchanting and smithing and didn't actually upgrade my gear with my newly gained knowledge. What a boring game!"
^(that's the article part, not what the OP said)^


OP's TL;DR opinion is:

"Well of course a bandit who knows how to use a sword should be able to kill you if you have golden armor and a shiny sword that you don't even know how to swing, especially when you are a master in enchanting and haven't even enchanted your gear."

Apparently while I was training the entire world was training too. And because I was too dumb to train in anything combat-related everybody else became stronger than me! This is a strategy game, not an RPG where by the end you pwn even the toughest bosses with your overpowered gear.

In OB, if that is any indicator, the NPCs level, too but their power levels very, very slowly. They gain 2 points in majors, a tiny amount of HP, Magicka and stamina. You would have to level a lot in non-combat skills for them to become stronger than you. I am sure in Skyrim it is the same. Seeing how fast I can kill bandits.
Creatures are a different matter. All their skills gain linear points (IIRC lvl/2 + base), their damage is also linear to their level. My feeling is that in Skyrim it is similar. Ceartures are sometimes more of a pain than NPCs.
All in all you have to level mostly non-combat skills to svck. This is not a smart move, imo and should be logical that you are weak then.

But the entire world DOESN'T level up. That's the thing.

And if they guy would have used enchanting and smithing to actually improve his stuff, he wouldn't have a problem.

I've actually started a different character since that thread, focusing on bows enchanting and light armor, and now I'm way too powerful.. but this is exactly my point, ether you are picking the correct level up choices and your so powerful the game gets repetitive and boring or your picking the wrong choices and your so weak the game gets frustrating and boring... even if you play the game just right it would be a grind where every confrontation was exactly the same...

if the world was static, not leveling with me i could focus on my role and constantly have new areas to chance and prepare for. An RPG should be like 'here's the world try to make a character to beat it'.. not 'here's our game, we made every effort to ensure all your character development is futile'

I realize lots of you like the game, but you like it for the wrong reasons, there are plenty games out there where its just one fight after another until the end, TES is supposed to be about the role you play and the character you create to challenge the environment, leveling has destroyed this process and turned TES games into just the same as every other game... you can make excuses for this, or say how you like that kind of game, but the fan base that started in the daggerfall era will mostly know what I'm saying here.

A Roleplaying game should be about making a character to beat the world? Strange really, I RP'd a character, I developed the skills that make sense to me, I improved my sword and shield antics, bit of magic on the side as a paladin.... never had a problem, some places too difficult, some places too easy... thats... how it should be.

Sorry to hear it went wrong for you, but examine the sentence I quoted.... you're doing it wrong.



I am? Gosh. I have a character, with a background, motivations, and moving through a world in an epic time where dragons have returned, and my presence is mysteriously and inextricably linked to it. I am fighting evil where I find it, combat injustice.. and having a whale of a time doing it.

It svcks that I like it for the wrong reasons... why didn't anyone tell me before now?

I sure hope my dog friend pulls through for me in the coming times!

no those are ok reasons to like 'a' game, you will probably like most games out now using those reasons, i was hoping for more from TES, but if you are not then fine i guess.

Well, thats not true thou is it. I'm not being objectionable, but most games don't give me such immense freedom, content, things to randomly find, freedom to play a character as I choose.. in fact.. I'd hazard to say only TES, and Dragon Age Origins in recent times gave me this freedom. Why would I like most games with that outlook?

I'm not taking away your reasons to be unhappy, I simply object to your prior definition of roleplaying game as an challenge in trying to use the mechanics to create the most powerful person, instead of playing a character.

....possibly one of the most assinine comments i have ever read.

Congratulations OP. You've worked your way up to being a fine blacksmith.

Sadly though, much of the game requires combat. Best to turn that difficulty slider down to novice....

But you have not made a character to beat it you have made a decision to roleplay as a blacksmith. Blacksmiths are going to svck at fighting dragons.

This guy again... What level was your blacksmithing and enchanting by this time? 100 for both? I suspect the guy power grinded blacksmithing/enchanting by making magical iron daggers, then did not even have the items to make even reasonably good gear. Then when out and got "pwned" by angry chickens.

Oh, it's that time again...

So yes, there is level scaling in Skyrim (and a rather bad UI, as well as some stuff due to it being developed primarily for consoles, sadly) but yeah, this sort of complaints are somewhat silly.

While present, level scaling is fortunately much less noticeable than in the terribad implementation in Oblivion.
If you of course just level your character by training non-combat skills, well surprise - you are bad at combat.



You can advance in every way you wish, but then don't complain that you are stuck with that role.
A good enchanter and black smith not a good fighter does make.
Let's consider a game completely without level scaling (which I personally prefer, too).
You would be in much the same situation. You could probably beat the enemies in the starting location, but nothing more. You probably wouldn't get much use from your great smithing/enchanting skills, either, as very likely there aren't many resources available as long as you don't learn some fighting skills.

The key to beating the game is (as has always been the case in TES games, imho) to find a balanced build. Get some crafting skils, just don't neglect fighting. It's just an too prominent part of these games.

The level scaling is no where near as jarring as what it was in Oblivion. My character is actually getting stronger, not just samey.

I somewhat agree with the author.

I mean, whats the point of casting magic? Every other mages destruction magic levels up as they do. Ours doesn't. In the end, they can one shot us and our spells wont barely touch them. Its not a point of casting free spells with -25% bonuses on armor for 100%. Our magic should be gradual progression.

Summoned pets should be the lvl we are, like our coungered weapons.

Why lvl from 30-50 if all it will do is make mages more powerful than my mage. Its not an RPG if my skill doesn't grow or progress. For that matter mages don't need more than 300 MP. If spells are free, the mage at this point is better off putting level ups into Endurence to melee and HP to get ht and wear heavy armor.

As for heavy or light weapons. I have 100 skil in both, but i don't see my man doing any new fancy ws's, even having warmaster. maybe I don't know how to do a weaponskill. I am not sure.

Enchantment and smithing. D I really need much else? If coungered weapons as aspowerful and most weapons found or created. Or the armor i make will all have -25% magic cast. I may as well be a Walmart factory item. No diversity.

I love the exploring mart, but I hate the fact my charater doesnt grow no matter my levels.



The only fun part I truely had is building my own army in the game.

I guess by beating down all guards in cities, and killing hired bandits to kill you. As well as beating down powerful NPC's you gain respect upon bandits. I started out with three hired bandits following me and attacking whatever I did, now I am up to eight. So if I walk in any place non dungeon, they will kill whatever attack. Yes even gaurds in cities.

I must say that it is pure logic that if you only advance in enchanting and blacksmith, you wont be able to take most of enemies down. I mean its kinda realistic, you haven't gained combat skills therefore you will not succed in combat.

This. If I spend all my time mixing potions, I'll eventually become a great alchemist. Unfortunately, that's a profession suited for laboratory work, not for slaying dragons and decapitating bandits.

You didn't REALLY expect that leveling pickpocket will make you an invincible warrior, did you?

Agreed. This is what I'm trying to tell people. For the most part, its only people who advance in smithing/enchanting/alchemy who have a hard time doing combat. Well thats obviouse, because you are not trained to kill things.

Ah, I see you have been power leveling your douchebaggery skill as well..

Where is the trainer for that one again?

This is not what is being criticized here. Everyone would expect their character to be as good (or bad) at fighting as they were before when their combat skills don't change. The problem is that they become worse fighters by increasing a support skill, because enemies become stronger just because they became better at making a potion.

With a skill of 30 in a weapon skill you could be considered a mediocre fighter. Should you gain a level by raising non-combat skills, however, that mediocre figher suddenly drops to the efficiency of an utter novice because enemies became stronger, while logic dictates they should be the same mediocre fighter as before, since their skill is still 30.

Basing the strength of enemies on your level and have every skill factor equally into that level, no matter how much that skill actually contributes to your ability to fight these enemies, is just bad game design. If you want level scaling, do it right and look at how wargames have been doing it for years.

I think the developers give players the wrong signals when they don't differentiate between combat and non-combat skills. The game never tell you that you have to use combat skills to have a fun experence and that may lead some players to think that they can focus on non combat skills and still have a good time.

Combat and non combat skills should be separated. That way fewer players will "trap" themselves in an awful build.