Nah, I'd prefer that we talk about the actual game.

We are.

Don't talk about the Mona Lisa. Talk about her facial features, her posture, her clothing, the background. In short, talk about the game's features, not the game as a game.

Why? The OP is completely relevant to the topic of TES V: Skyrim, a videogame.

In fact, the first off topic post in this thread is:

I don't consider any video games art. And trust me, I like video games a lot.

Do you consider cinema to be art?

Why not? Liking video games doesnt really constitute as a logical argument... jus sayin

It's something to talk about after we've played the game for a while, not before.

Evidently it isn't. Please stop derailing the thread.

But is the interactive component of games, which would be their equivalent to rolling a die or drawing a card, usually all that necessary in order deliver the narrative, or whatever message or feeling it wants to get across? And for that matter, why could competitive sports not be art? And how exactly are games any less competitive? Even single player games involve you competing against something, like time or the AI. And are we suddenly discounting board games that also have a narrative of some sort, like some tabletop RPGs, or something like, say, Arkham Horror?


But that's the point I'm getting across. Simple board games, card games, and even athletic sports can and often have artistic elements implemented into them. Do you think those panels featuring Uncle Pennybags, or that image of the king seemingly sticking a sword in his head, came about naturally? No, someone drew and designed those at some point. To say nothing of http://gigposters.com/gfx/merch/cards3-big.jpg. Why aren't they put under the same pretentious arguments given the same treatment as video games whenever these kind of conversations pop up?

In your definition, yes, I agree. I think Skyrim is art

Not derailing, please continue your discussion.

But think of it this way, do you look the the cover of a book to determine whether the entire story is art? Or do you open it up and read it first?

A fiction book is art, full stop.

Of course, video games are as much art as films, television, music, books, music etc.

To say otherwise is ignorant.

To avoid being verbose about this, I think you're adhering far too strictly to the term "game." You have it in you head that something cannot be a game [interactive entertainment] and an art at the same time. In previous years this may have been the case but with the advent of video games and their increasing complexity, popularity and focus, it surely isnt like that anymore. I really dont see how you think its fitting to compare a work like Skyrim to a deck of cards but perhaps you should read my prior post to see why I dont agree with you here.

Really nothing pretentious about the argument in my opinion. But it is slightly insulting to say dozens of people (voice actors, animators, landscape artists, character designers etc) havent created a piece of art just because it happens to be a video game.

Art is designed primarily to please one or more of the senses, and secondarily to evoke emotion. Although, I realise now that competitive sports are a performance art of a kind. I've heard graceful football plays and brilliant poker moves described as artful. In conclusion: art is a terribly vague word.

Art is in the eye of the beholder and its appreciation subject to the emotion or lack thereof it creates. As for Skyrim being a doorway, that was meant allegorically, not figuratively. We call it a game maybe, but it can be an escape, a release, an adventure, a time sink, etc. etc. ,depending on how its experienced. Same thing can happen just viewing a painting, attending the theatre, or listening to music in the dark. Its all art.....

After much deliberation I've decided that everything that's ever existed is art!!1

Perhaps Artistic Expression is better than just saying art in general?

yes skyrim is art its creation its every established form of art combined. you cant argue its not art.

Define art.

"Oxford dictionary- "Works produced by human creative skill and imagination." Therefore elephants painting and robots as well as any other lifeforms besides humans is not art. LOL

Is Skyrim intended to be art by Bethesda? No, Skyrim is intended to be an open world RPG.

Of course games are an artform and Skyrim is a piece of art. This is the new artform, in fact. It's like impressionism or expressionism and our online forums are like the 19th century Paris cafés. You can throw sculpture and painting in the rubbish bin; been there, done that. Games are the new art that the future Rembrandts and Van Goghs express themselves in. And I say this without a doubt - they will forget today's painters and sculptors, but they will write books about us game-creators, gamers and modders.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/video_games_can_never_be_art.html

Define "art" first and then this sort of debate will have some merit.

I'm personally of the opinion that being art doesn't make something special. Pretty much all entertainment is art if it has any degree of soul to it. Art can still be shallow or vapid or unimportant or just plain crappy.