Again, willpower had absolutely no contribution to whether or not you resisted magic. You guys must have had a really fun time increasing willpower to resist magic, when it did nothing of the sort :rofl:

EDIT: Look at the above post . Willpower didn't affect resistance to magic at all.

yes it did, this isn't going to go any where, all I can say is if you study that oh so intemedating "spreadsheet" it all becomes very clear and logical.



well thats called user error.

People...people Oblivion made you keep track of your skills and the "spreadsheetyness" because LEVEL SCALING was CRAP, if you did not micromanage, in Vanilla oblivion you were F'ed and had to start over, this isnt the Case.

In my modded Oblivion I don't worry about what I should level up next? I play my damn character and their actions shape their growth, PERIOD but of course this has been utterly detached and left to Perks.

Ok, let's put it this way then. You have a model T and it's an old system, proven true but it's not perfect. So just because it was the previous type of car you drove, you don't think we should upgrade to a 2010 Mustang with onboard computer, air conditioning, capability of reaching high speeds and so on? The mustang does everything that the model T did but better and looks nicer too.

As for the written stone objective, technically no it doesn't but acrobatics and athletics doesn't help you get through side quests or main quest, which is the core value of the game and thus is what skills should be aimed at and the little extra things like different clothing types and factions and so on are for the extra objectives.

I love Roleplaying but we need the game to be good 1st then we can talk about Roleplaying. The majority of Beth's customers aren't interested in Roleplaying only the hardcoe among us will do it.

It says in the GI article on combat
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/01/24/skyrim-building-better-combat.aspx
that elemental resistances against spells are under shield perks. Maybe not ideal, but it's there if you want it, no willpower necessary.

:huh: Not according to UESP and that's where you can find all correct info on TES...

It's not going anywhere because you're straight making stuff up. Do you mod Oblivion?? Have you looked to see whether or not willpower affects resistance?? Have you looked to see if anyone else has?? I have.

I use a mod to make it affect resistance to magic.

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=11237

So please, for the sake of this thread, have even a faint idea about something before you go blindly posting it.

and that would have saved them so much more time, while still adding perks without cutting Attributes. every would be pleased in some way.



just because the model T isn't the most effiecient model of car we didn't completely abandon cars as a mode of transportation. people didn't stop using cars, they improved them. we should improve attributes than find away to reinvent the wheel. the same could be said about Attributes, it would have saved them time and we could have kept attributes AND over 480 perks (if they wanted to apply the time saved in that direction)

The level scaling was crap in a huge part because of the huge power difference between a player that nearly only used minor skills (very strong, high skills for his level, high attributes) and one that nearly only used major skills (weak, a couple skills are halfway usable to face the encounters you get, your attributes svck).

As long as I can run around with a sword, or a stave, or just magic, or a bow, or talk with npc's and the world feels real and allows me to perform all the tasks anyone else would, I really couldn't care less which way they arrange the numbers. I avoid stats pages with a pashion. They don't really tell me much anyway. All I really care about is if I can kill that thing over there, and if I can't kill it because its to strong I have the ability to get stronger and return to whoop some tail feathers.

An rpg to me is just a game that allows me to make a character and throw them into a world. Skyrim will do that for me just fine, weither the atributes are called atributes or if they got moved somewhere else.

Unfortunately, I believe it does. You can see this by the tips in the loading screens of Oblivion. However, it may have been removed and they forgot to remove the tip. I'm usually don't mod attributes and at first glance at the CS I don't see a damage modifier but it doesn't mean it doesn't exist somewhere else. All I can really go by is what UESP says and what the tip messages on the loading screens say.

Read my above post about willpower please. Also, your anology is not a good one. You don't abandon cars as a mode of transport (which are pretty inefficient at the moment anyway, but that's another topic), you change to electric or hybrid or something. By your logic you'll be driving a 1999 model that worked just fine, paying who know much for your fuel, whilst the rest of us silently cruise along in our hydrogen powered electric cars. :shrug:



See my above post. I think it was meant to, but it got broken somewhere or they forgot to put it in.

Yes.

Since Morrowind, more and more skills are being taken out. And with no stats, every character across a race will be exactly the same.

I want more character variety, not less.

Get rid of the class system, it was pointless and arbitrary, but keep stats and INCREASE the number of skills, not reduce it.

yes I have, you would be totally correct if I was saying that Willpower had a one to one effect on how much you resisted spells. but thats not what I said. the fact is that if you had a resist magic spell in affect you had slightly higher chance to resist spells because Willpower governs the alteration skill and there with a higher willpower the cheaper you can cast resistance or shield spells with less effieciency cost. It has an affect, not a direct affect but it does have an affect. which was all I entended to state, this is getting off topic so maybe we should take this discussion to personal im's instead.

Doubt it. If the UESP says it doesn't and no evidences are found on the CS I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect it :shrug:

Excuse me i quoted you in full So anyone readying my post would have been able to read your exact quote in full. And from what you said....




And i clearly pointed out that while the old system had two points of manipulation of a desired result namely damage in your conversation from weapon skill and strength, the current system has multiple ways to manipulate a desired stat as well. Skill and perks. They have said that perks have levels as well so you may get a sword damaging perk but you can improve on that perk by buying aditional levels. Again we see multiple points of manipulation simply done differnetly without the foolish failing of the old system.

i see nothing in your arguement that supports the notion that you can't "mix things up" simply because the dropped attributes and added perks.

I'd say it's still on topic. But either way, you just get a perk that makes resistive spells more effective (provided your (EDIT turns out it's) restoration skill is high enough of course). In what way is that worse than having an arbitrary number attached to the alteration skill?? Both are arbitrary modifiers, both do exactly the same thing, the only thing that changes is this time you don't see a "Willpower" section in your stats menu :shrug:

But they did abandon the model T. That is the point. It's the same concept (a motorized vehicle) but it's different, new and improved and for the better. That was the point of the metaphor :biggrin:

As for attributes, they are like the fuel systems. Attributes were steam and the new 3 attribute system is gasoline. They are two different things but gasoline is more efficient and still serves the same purpose, which is to govern health, stamina and magicka.

I am very sorry, that is not realistic or logical in the slightest. What they have done is not a mathematical simplification but a crude simplification of human existence and here's how:
You play this guy: http://elderscrolls.com/skyrim/media/screenshots/dragon-approach/ Obviously a bit above average in the muscles department versus the average human/bipedal of the TES world. I'm thinking all that hard work did not give him time to study say - mathematics and astrology like say more studious or mentally inclined individuals.
I'm playing Mitzy the Barmaid: http://elderscrolls.com/skyrim/media/screenshots/tavern/ Shes obviously not as muscular as mr horned helmet. But i'm willing to bet she has areas that she might be more likely to be better at than mr. horned helmet - natural areas mind you - not skills. Basic human interaction - say.. charisma.. perhaps?

In the game- they both would have the exact same intelligence (so everyone in the world has a 100 IQ - ) same strength (so person studying ancient languages at say church sponsored school versus a trapper in skyrim have exact same - everyone in world is exactly alike.

Well you might say - archery replaces agility. No : Mitzy has never picked up a weapon but she has danced out of the way of greasy hand of drunken patrons. Using a bow does NOT make mr horned helmet any better at the balance beam. Well you might say - endurance is the same as health. No - swinging swords make mr. horned helmets arms quite thick (but no stronger than little mitzy apparently) making him quite top heavy. Whereas mitzy might used to slinging casks of mead on her back or head (say like in many third world countries still do today - women sadly acting as pack animals) so mitzy would have been endurance (ability to "endure") rather than pure health (body mass and body mass efficiency) as mr. horned helmet who would be stronger than she.

Skill = attribute nonsense - so if Mitzy has never picked up a weapon her "skills" would be baseline. Mr. horned helmet has obviously. Her not using a skill should not have an anatomical effect upon her. Using weapon = stronger = do more damage is not a guarantee. Who would you rather get in a fight with - average NFL linebacker or say someone not quite so bulky (strength) but someone like Muhammad Ali or say - Bruce Lee. I'd take the former option - the latter have obscene SKILL at their profession of COMBAT. whereas the former are really strong and fast.

Wrong more characters will be diverse because of the perks. You can still get your character up to 100 skills but you won't be able to get all the good perks.

Reflect Spell and Spell Absorbtion as Mysticism effects governed by Int not Will. Only Resist Magicka which is a Restoration spell is governed by Will. Maybe you should try playing Oblivion first before talking about it

just make sure it dosent randomly crash every 5-10 minutes like oblivion and ill be happy

It doesn't matter how muscular your Nord is if he can't use a Sword. Hence he needs the skill not the strength. Perks replace Attributes and will help to increase weapon damage for those specific perks.

This.

Perks are a new layer of complexity. From the sound of it, they're also a huge one. There's 280 of them, and they're organized into tree structures (or possibly Directed Acyclic Graph structures.)