well actually those combat monunvers did exist in OB, and you gained acess to them by leveling those skills up. and plenty of people thought they were useful, you don't have to agree to that, but its an error to cut something because some people thought they were useless, and if they were lacking uses, make uses for them, it adds more to the game.

So does that mean we cant jump and roll around like in oblivion?

Some speculated and disturbingly glorified Apple like user interface? ( where is he with the epic sig qouting todd on this and saying who gives a crap how it looks what about how it functions)

every character essentially being the same at the start until they pick "perks"..but strip the perks and they are still the same, in speed, strength, jump height, >_> where as in Oblivion Everyone was also more or less the same, at the beginning and end and varied in the middle, why isnt this compounded with perks? why are attributes being axed when they could form an epic symbiosis as did normal attributes do with skills?

potential lack of spell casting even though enchanting is in?

giving alchemy to thieves >_>

Twining everything even further into charges instead of just making each and everyone optional and giving the player the choice to pick some and not do so well with others (I.E Crafting - stated by Todd: Smithing = fighters Alchemy = thieves Enchanting = mages)

Instead of exploiting radiant story even more to potentially use preexisting sound and dialoge to make NPC conversations with the PC more Dynamic (I.E an advance version of Oblivions NPC to NPC convos system) they resort to FO3's dialog treeless anonymous npc's so now I can't walk up to some random NPC who's chosen out by RS to give me information I've not heard before, RS already picks up NPC's and put them relevant to particular quests...why not expand on this?


What isnt simplified-

Fishing/Smithing/Cooking/Woodcutting/forging/Mining? Maybe

Towns have economies, and players can mess with them.

Waters are now populated by FISH and not banes of existence that is slaugther fish

Dragon shouts consist of 60 words, I.E spell effects (ACTUAL SPELL EFFECTS NOT JUST 85 SPELLS) of which I hope are completely independant of normal spells, utterly and completely, I hope they aren't copies of normal spells, period.

So we can't run the whole map at 40 mph, and jump 50 feet. It was fun in OB, but a little bit ridiculous imo. Anyway, with athletics, acrobatics and mysticism gone, there is only one more skill to be removed to make way for enchanting, and that might be speechcraft and mercantile being combined, so no great hardship.
And if spellmaking is gone, sad day, but the number of ways you can cast the spells you do have may well make up for it.

Well, if the attributes are cut, then I'm out. I don't understand this desire to get rid of complex stuff, no one really complained about it. What, did Fallout New Vegas selling 5+ million copies scream "We should make a dumb action game!"

Honestly it looks like it. To me this will be nothing more than another Fable 3 or Dragon Age 2, in my eyes nothing more than a pathetic failure placed at the feet of some entirely imaginary audience that doesn't really exist. I guess I'll be looking to other games until I hear this one has changed. :sadvaultboy:

The Acrobatics skill makes sense more in Skyrim than in any other TES game. I mean, there are mountains everywhere, ripe for skydiving. I would have preferred they roll Athletics and Acrobatics together, maybe add some climbing functionality, and call it something else like "Pathfinding" than remove it completely.

I'll wait until I see how large of an impact skills and perks have on gameplay before I bemoan the loss of attributes. It seems like perks can go one of two extremes: Incredible amount of specialization and customization that makes the attribute system look cookie cutter by comparison, or such a heavy emphasis on making a character "stronger" that anything but a combat-oriented character suffers. Who would want to pick a "Run 10% faster" perk when doing so forces you to skip a real combat-changing perk like Archery zoom? I hope (and expect) things will be balanced and all perk combinations are viable.

Jump yes although not 10 feet in the air, Roll is still unknown I'm thinking it'll be a perk but it's too early to tell.

Ok, assume we lose insane amount of little superficial things (which is highly doubtful) it still doesn't make the game less complex, the complexity we are talking about is the combinations of perks, skills and stats (health, stamina and magicka) and we already know that they are septillions(Skyrim) versus billions (MW and OB and I don't want to do Daggerfall because there is so many things you have to take into account like special advantages and disadvantages).

Wait guys is fishing confirmed? omigosh i hope so :bowdown:

but attributes affected more than just skills, strength did not just modify blunt weapons, it also determined encumberance and starting stamina. now there is the big question floating around on how they are going to adress encumberance with out strength, they cant tie it to any skill because the whole point in which they claimed for getting rid of the main skill system and attributes was so that it did not force people to use certain skill sets more than others.

Except when Todd talked about the apple like user interface, he was talking about it in terms of functionality.

No.

how many in oblivion (im lazy)

no it is definitally not being simplified in skills which allows us more customization, there is also shouts which will add a new flavor to combat also radient AI/quests

also 21 skills in Oblivion, but with skyrim each skill like destruction can be divided into things like frost fire and electric attacks

21 skills, no perks.

there will probably be a perk for them if at all. but it just doesn't feel like you worked hard to get these bonuses if your just selecting them from a list every time you level up.

it's probably in the perks, like "strong back" to heighten the encumbrance limit, perks that make running faster or jumping longer, kinda like that

Nope.

Everything is in place. Just in a different location.

Acrobatics and Athletics never deserved a place in the first place.

well there were perks, but you could not customize it

Skyrim is hardly being "simplified". It isn't fair to look at the removal of one feature and completely ignore the addition of dozens of others.

Those are not superficial things, countless builds could be made around those hypothetically cut things alone.

alot of them were copy and paste or did nothing (magic).

No, the hypothetically cut things I mentioned were "superficial" nothing would be built around them.



I wasn't talking about things we already know are cut, you were talking in the hypothetical so I was also talking in the hypothetical. Just list all the things cut that you think are unjustly cut and I'll explain what happened to them and what reasoning Bethesda might have had for doing so.

To be precise, he SAYS that everything in the game with attributes is still in the game.

Here's a Todd Howard quote about Oblivion, when IT was in development:

"The other thing it (Radiant AI) does is give the game a more organic feel than scripting could. NPC’s won’t always be standing there doing the exact same thing at the same time. The fact that your experience and what’s going on in the world around you in your game is a bit different than other people is pretty cool. The conversations you’ll overhear and subsequent quests you’ll be able to get as a result will vary. It makes the world feel much more realistic and alive." (- http://www.gamechronicles.com/qa/elderscrolls4/oblivion.htm)

Contrast that with the reality of "I saw a mudcrab the other day."

We'll see.....

Believe me, friend, I went over all of these issues many months ago. Think about this: What of willpower, and the magic resistance it provided? How will anybody resist magic? Perhaps we simply won't resist it at all.

Does anyone have a specific quote saying that they will ONLY have perks for skills (and not general perks, like encumbrance raisers or movement speed bonuses)? If they could have general perks, that could solve a lot of these issues. A 5x stacking encumbrance perk, a speed perk, whatever.

Still, here's how I see this new system: It could be TERRIBLE and totally bland if their perks are bad. If their perks are good, it could be rich and very fun (much more fun, in my opinion, than getting +1 to strength or something. Where's the fun in static stat bonuses?), like making your lightning spells arc between targets, or your fire spells damage the enemy's armor and weapons or something like that. Effects that, alone, aren't anything to call home about, but, combined, define your character in a totally unique way that no one else will have.