You dont miss Morrowind or Daggerfall cities?
You dont think its a loss that because of secondary things like graphics we get these half a farm and a horsehead sort of things?

I would happily go back to Morrowind graphics if it meant Morrowind cities and NPC's.
(And quests for that matter. Vivec city has more quests than all Skyrim 'capitals' combined.)

I have, Minecraft



Trololololo

yes, previous elder scrolls games.

>>>-----(knee(----->

if the dev says that this game has more hours of gamepl;ay than any game has, then i would argue that this game has more gameplay time than previous games that they made... no?

i know its fun to be quip, but you all know full and well theres more going on in this game and there has to be a trade off somewhere.

^ This. (No, Radiant Story generic quests don't count.)

Unfortunately, I do agree.

Skyrim suffers from evere provincialism.
Not only cities and villages but roads too.
No carriages - and you'd expect them since they're avaiable to you and supposedly to everyone else.
No travelling merchants, no caravans, nothing.
All we get is the sporadic soldier trio.
Ahhh.....

Did you specify in your post that you were referring to what the devs said? Did I miss it?

Your post:

ive never played a game with 300+ hours of gameplay with more complex cities...
have you?

Nope, nothing in there about what the devs said in regards to hours of play.

Grand theft has bigger crowds but what are the trade-offs?

Frankly, there's a lot of genuine room for criticism but this is nitpicking. Why not complain the ships aren't to scale in the xwing/tie fighter games? There are certain acceptable departures from reality to either accommodate storytelling or technical limitations.

I'd like to see bigger cities but understand why we don't.

I'm planning a mod for this. I'll make copy-paste houses for all holds. 2-3 different ones for each major city I reckon. I'll place them around town and move the existing ones a bit around.
Then I'll add filler NPCs with real names, e.g. Arnand Riscel for a Breton instead of Breton Townsman or Ragnar Stonefist for a Nord.

I'll need someoneto do very simple voicing, like "Buzz off" and "Greetings" to add to them, and someone to place pathgrids and scripting to the degree that tehy know they live there, adn they will go here and there.
I may just be ambitious, but I think it could be good.

My goal is more realistic cities with more dark alleys and such, which would be better than all teh open areas in for example Whiterun.
The waterfountain at the sides of the stairs up to Dragonsreach can also be used as it doesn't really fit in me thinks.

Minor hold capital.

There are only 5 Major holds, the rest are just lonely silly people with pointless lives. On topic

Off topic.

Anyway, If Bethesda didnt insist on using the same bloated engine as before, id more than welcome more interesting cities, but they did because its the managements decision nowadays, not the developers and frankly the lack of a new console generation was apparently too much to invest in a better engine.

Also to the guy that is complaining about graphics, irrelevant, utterly...irrelevant.

So deal with it, this is how things are and for the foreseeable future of the industry, afterall its all your fault, buying the game in the first place as well as buying the previous games, every time you put down the dollar or euro, you are making a statement "I care that spears are gone, but ill buy Oblivion anyway", aww deary me, that was silly wasnt it.

:violin: intelligence seems to be going doing the drain nowadays.

I think the problem here is that it's scaled TOO much.

I wish they made them more populated

We wouldn't even need to go back to Morrowind graphics for that.

The devs could use the engine with all the mods put out, add new character models and animation and boom, we would have a great looking game and they would have time to put in more NPCs.

I don't even need a city the size of Vivec, give me Balmora, Sadrith Mora and Ald'ruhn and I'm happy, but Merari said it: The hold capitals of Skyrim are the small villages of Morrowind.

LOL /respect

Yes that is certainly a valid point, there are time and hardware constraints.
Nevertheless, I think most of us here were expecting a (slight) step up from Oblivion.

While it is true that it is no longer the case that everything outside of the 5 Oblivion 'cities' is a one-house farm, there is still a certain lackluster-ness.

To I the cities (if you call cities in historic terms) are fine. You want cities in Skyrim the same size as New York?

Oh My God!!! My poor pc shatters the thought of it.

Had the same plan, but was going to mix various audio tracks to make tell arrow to the knee jokes.
Seriously tho, not modded much before but as soon as i got to Solitude i just said to myself, "This NEEDS to be done" that city has so much potential.
So much wasted space.....

I'd love larger "real" cities myself as well. But when an entire country is actually the size of a state park, the world's largest mountain is the size of a ordinary hill/small mountain, and the entire planet is the size of a state or a very small country, then I guess it makes sense size wise. I'd love to see a realistic sized world someday, but that is unlikely yo ever happen due to time/cost/computer requirements.

Not Daggerfall Cities, those took way to long to get from one place to another in the city. They went on forever. As for Morrowind, they were not that big either. Vivec and Balmora and Sadrith Mora were the only cities of any real size. Only Vivec is really bigger than anything in this game, and that place was not that much fun to get around in.

I don't think it's a graphic limitation. Major cities are in separate zones. I think they just didn't do it... maybe time constraints, etc. It doesn't really bother me, but if the game engine can handle a land the size of Skyrim, then it should be able to handle a larger city when they are already in separate world spaces.

I don't think they'll ever capture the magic of walking into Balmora or Vivec for the first time, but that might just be an effect of technology advancing so fast. We expect more these days. I mean, who here remembers playing the first Unreal... the first time you stepped out of the crashed ship and into the world? Back then, it was a very impressive sight.

I guess making HD cities is too much work, right Squ...Bethesda?

Whiterun has 25 buildings.
Markarth has 21.
Windhelm has 25.
Solitude has 28.
Riften has 24.
Winterhold has 6.
Falkreath has 9.
Dawnstar has 13
Morthal has 8.
That's an average of 17.7 buildings.

Dagon Fel has 15.
Hla Oad has 7.

Get your facts straight, won't you?

Speaking of magic, I must admit..
Walking up to Solitude for the first time, seeing it up above..
Just wow.
That was a very statisfying moment.

For TES 6 I really hope they give this attention though.
I remember thinking back in the day that Vivec city wasnt all that large really, and I optimistically wondered how big the capital of TES 4 would be.
:sigh:

Yeah, same as me. That main street in front of the Blue Palace is just rediculous.
Same with teh huge stoneblock of nothing in the Grey Quarter of Windhelm. And the open park area between teh houses behind the Swordmaiden's in Whiterun, same with the rock walls of Markarth (So much potential when the city is built in stone after all), same with the canols of Riften and the streets. They are huge.
And not huge with content, no. Huge with space.

So I will probably start trying to get around a small group (2-3 people) to simply do house design, house placement, retexture of ground for pavement, simple voicing and script packaging.
Maybe you can help once the CK comes? I'm kind of a bit busy with school and all, but can press in some hours daily I guess.