Ok everyone, I've talked about http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1169397-morality-and-recognition/ in Skyrim and how I hope the game http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1169384-skyrims-engine-and-the-ps3/, but now I have a new topic I think we could discuss.

How will dialogue work in Skyrim? More importantly, how would you like it to work?

Option 1: Classic Elder Scrolls. Would you like things to stay how they've been in Morrowind and Oblivion? Basically, there are a lot of things you can say, but they all lead to the same path. An example of this is in the opening of Oblivion when the emperor says, "Listen. You know the Nine? How they guide our fates with an invisible hand?" or something along those lines (going off of memory), and you can reply, "The Nine guide and protect us." or "I'm not on good terms with the Gods." or "I don't know. I don't think about it.". However, nothing will change regardless of what you pick. The emperor will still say the same thing and no one will think differently of you. This option allows you to do everything there is to see and do in the game on a single playthrough, because no matter what you say everything stays the same for the most part. There's usually only one outcome for everything, for example, regardless of whether or not you are the Arch Mage, the Thieves Guild will still act as though you need to steal from someone other than yourself (That's just a popular example of the problems with this method). No player voice.

Option 2: New Vegas Style. Would you like certain events to be locked out if you say certain things to certain people? Certainly! With this option things get a little more realistic, as choosing to side with a certain group may prevent another group from speaking to you. Also, in some instances you can persuade people to do things based on what you say. In Skyrim terms, if you join The Dark Brotherhood the Fighters Guild may refuse to speak with you or even attack you on sight. This option will give the relatively useless skill of Speechcraft some new life in Skyrim if implemented right. Some dialogue options were not available in Oblivion if you didn't have high enough Speechcraft, but not nearly on the same level as the Fallout games. There are still issues with this format though, such as no one really reacting to what you say on a basic level. An example of this is Trudy's conversation about Benny and her radio. You can say something along the lines of "Please, continue what you were saying." or "I don't care about your stupid radio, just tell me where they went". Regardless of how nice you are, the info you get stays the same and Trudy will act no differently outside of that conversation. The game may end differently depending on your dialogue choices. Still no player voice.

Option 3: Mass Effect Wheel. Would you like a fully voiced character at cost of not knowing exactly what you'll say? With this choice, you get choices (hahaa). You can choose to be nice, neutral, or rude with just about everything you say. Another positive (or perhaps negative depending on the person) is that your player character will be fully voiced, adding a lot of emotion and interactivity to the conversations. The downside to this is that the choices you pick on screen do not always pan out like you expected them to. The spoken dialogue is almost always different than the written choices, and sometimes the voice actor will speak with an attitude you didn't intend him to. With this option the main story will stay the same but people will treat you differently based on what you say.

Option 4: I Have A Dream! Pick your poison. Anything else you can think of or some combination of the above options. Explain in detail below!

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Me personally? I would go with option 4. I would really rather not have it be like Classic Elder Scrolls at all though. I don't like how nothing really changes based on what you say and no one will treat you differently based on who you choose to align with. New Vegas Style is a step in the right direction but it's still imperfect. Regular conversations rarely change because of what you say and only certain instances call for decision making. Passing a speech check is really only there to make the gameplay/missions easier and not to affect the conversation itself. Plus, NPC's still don't treat you differently when you talk to them like a jerk and in order to get them upset at you, you'll have to do something really malicious towards them, not usually involving speech. Even then, there's no middle ground. They either talk to you or they don't talk to you and instead attack you on sight.

I think that the Mass Effect Wheel certainly has the best concepts when it comes to a dialogue system, but it too is not perfect for the Elder Scrolls universe. While I like the idea of a fully voiced player character, that would be nigh impossible in Skyrim. With ten different races I just don't see it happening. It also presents an issue with immersion. One/ten voices are not going to convey all the user created faces perfectly. So I think voicing is out. However, the consequences for what you choose to say could definitely adopt a Mass Effect-esque system. These consequences are more immediate in Mass Effect because you can speak to people however you'd like and depending on your attitude, NPC's would react differently in that very same conversation. Since it's been confirmed that conversations will take place in real time, I think a "Wheel" like system will almost be necessary to keep the pace of conversations realistic. If you can't decide what you are going to say before the NPC stops talking, there's going to be a lot of awkward silence in Skyrim. That is assuming you can choose what you want to say and not just pick from random sentences that will always lead to the same events.

Seeing as how Radiant Story is letting Bethesda create realistic reactions to how the player is playing the game... I.E. NPC's will want to use you for a quest suitable for a mage-like character if that's how you have been playing... then I don't see why they can't also have NPC's react based on how you speak to them. It just breaks the immersion completely when I become a Dark Brotherhood assassin and no one questions me when I also want to join the Mage's Guild. That being said, I do like to be able to do everything in one playthrough but I think that's only because it's an option. If joining one group locked me out of joining another group I think I'd be fine with that. That would just make me say, "Well on my next character, I'll do this instead of that".

All I know is that I'd like a bit of interaction, consequences, and realism when it comes to the dialogue system. It doesn't have to go as far as Mass Effect takes it, because Skyrim will obviously have more NPC's to speak to, but a little influence from a great system is never a bad thing right?

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So what about you? What dialogue system would you like to see? Any of these options? A mix of these options? Or something different entirely?

Please share your opinions and vote! :thumbsup:

New Vegas style would be best.

I never did like the whole keyword thing or the stupid persuasion system.

It would be awensome a Mass Effect feel... But its imposible.

New Vegas with a combination of MLK.

And, to be honest, your "classic TES" style is actually "classic Bioware style". I would say classic TES is more like an interrogation than a conversation (nothing wrong with that-- dialogue is a way to get information to the player).

Mass effect is it's own thing and would be way to hard to put in skyrim with all the npc's. I like new Vegas way the best because of it wouldn't be hard to do.

True, however, my main point with the Classic Elder Scrolls style is that nothing changes based on what you say. It may be an interrogation, but the information you receive will always be the same. This is mainly due to the fact that you can almost always choose every single option, and nothing ever gets locked out because you insulted the person mid conversation or you decided to threaten them.

Sorry if I'm not getting my idea across clearly!

If the dialog choices will be as simple as Oblivion's I think a Mass Effect wheel might actually work. If there are several options that you may want to go back to a few times, I think "New Vegas" style will suit me just fine.

I think how it was in Fallout and more specifically New Vegas would be best. With general options that we can flick through, and certain checks that can be passed based on the corresponding skill. I think the dialogue system is actually one of NV's strongest points.

I am fully against anything mass effect in TES. Nothing about that game was appealing,at least from how I think of rpg games. I hope its just like the choice box,sans le zoomed face cam.

Between those options, I would choose New Vegas style. I thought everything involving dialogue in that game worked real well. But as for me, Im a huge Mass Effect really devoted fan as well, so having the whole good, neutral, bad thing sprinkled in would be nice. But for arguments sake: New Vegas style

I liked the Morrowind dialog box. It showed everything the said in one panel, with the keywords on the side, and it didn't scroll through, it just showed the whole chunk all at once. I don't think will work into Skyrim, where there will be voice acting for everything. It will be interesting on how the journal will work into conversations, and how much attention you'll have to pay to what they say.

I liked the way it worked in New Vegas. The conversation wheel seemed like a good idea when they hyped up the original Mass Effect. I loved that game, but the conversation wheel was nowhere near as awesome as it looked in previews. A lot of the time, instead of saying no thank you like the wheel indicated, Shepard would tell someone to do something rather inappropriate.

I would love it if they took the best of both worlds. You get New Vegas style mechanics with Mass Effect style choices and consequences for what you say. At least in an immediate sense.

So basically, what you say works like New Vegas... but how you say it, and how people immediately react to what you say works like Mass Effect. That way, if you want to role play as a jerk, you can always say things in a tough manner. If you always want to be respectful, you can say things nicely to everyone. The only difference is how you say it and how the people react... but the long lasting consequences are the same. You can still complete the missions even if the people don't like how you speak to them.

I'd like it to have the non-face-staring quality and emotion of the Mass Effect system, as well as the polite/direct/aggressive split, however, I'd also like to see the Elder Scroll's (Specifically, pre-Oblivion's) manner of gaining and losing personality points with that person. Speechcraft could help push the bonus gained in talking to someone the "right" way (Being polite to an authoritive figure, being aggressive with a malicious Orc) and help minimize the loss of picking the "wrong" way to reply to someone (Say, being direct with a caring, talkative individual). Bribes would still be in, as would Charming an individual, but you would be limited to three charms, who's effectiveness would depend on your Speechcraft.

That would be great. That's the main thing I love about Mass Effect's system. Not what you say, but how you say it. It adds so much immersion when you are allowed to basically say everything in 3 different ways, so that you can act how you want your character to act. There was none of that in Oblivion. It's slightly less of a problem in TES though because there's no voice. However, it would still be nice if you could say certain things, and because you said that, you can't say something else.

Example:

NPC - "Hello good sir, can I help you with something?"

You - "Yes, thank you, I'm looking for a Blacksmith named Jeek Na' Vik."

NPC - "Oh, of course, he's just two doors down on the left!"

You - "Thank you, good day!"

NPC - "You're very welcome!"

Or

NPC - "Hello good sir, can I help you with something?"

You - "Skip the pleasantries, I'm looking for Jeek Na' Vik!"

NPC - "I'm afraid I can't help you."

You - "Thanks for nothing!"

NPC - "... *cough* ..."

Just a simple branching system like that would go a long way in immersing you, and it wouldn't affect the gameplay in any dramatic way.

i like the fallout system. oblivion's svcked.

How about a system like The Witcher? Fully voiced character, multiple choices with multiple outcomes, and the character says exactly the option you chose/

NEW VEGAS FTW! If I say something offensive I want to get barred from doing things. It actually makes you feel good or evil.

That would be cool too, but again, I don't think fully voiced player characters is very feasible. It would also cause a lot of problems.

There are ten races in Skyrim, so they would have to record ALL the dialogue in twenty different ways. One for each race and then one for each gender. That would take far to long. The other issue here is that not every voice they record will match the characters we create. What if I hate the voice of the male Breton and it doesn't match the look of my character? I just don't play as my favorite race?

Multiple choices and outcomes should be implemented in my opinion, at least a little bit. Small things like asking for info and depending on if you asked nicley or rudely, they'll help you or they wont. (See example above)

I like the classic elderscrolls, "I can say anything I want," except I'd like different paths.
Mass Effect had different paths, but most ended the same anyway.
I like the chance for more dialogue, the more, the better. The more, the more I feel like my character...

something I disliked about mass effect was how you weren't really choosing based on what you'd say, just trying to get enough [censored]/nice guy points to get different charm or intimidation talking-paths.

ME wheel svcks, play DA:2 demo, and if u see why, then u don't want it, if U can't see the reason behind.. don't bother

/note* it svcks in DA:2 prolly, not in ME series/

(= no med. style game wouldn't benefit)

The only thing that bugged me about the Fallout dialogue system is you could ask things you hadn't been asked yet. As long as they remove this I'm all for them bringing this system in.

I'd prefer a New Vegas style Dialogue system myself. The Classic TES set up worked when the dialogue box just was a giant infodump, but for modern day First Person Role Play, I think the NV system works the best.

That's my main problem with Oblivion's system. Everything you say is just to get information and how you treat people in those conversations is preset. There's no risk/reward in talking to people. They were just there for info and you could ask them about everything with no consequences and no reactions. It's just too static and lacks meaning. I have no doubt Skyrim will be an improvement. I'm just anxious to see the way in which it's improved.