Skyrim's dragons and Oblivion's gates : V - Skyrim

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:40 am

As opposed to the grotesque amount of Oblivion Gates there are only 20 or so Dragons. I heard there was a limited number of them. There may be to little and it would take several playthroughs for us to get are fill.
Still Oblivions gates get interesting again when you stop visiting them for a while.

Agreed. There are like 100 gates in Oblivion with the amount that can be opened varying depending on where you are in the main quest. It would have been unbelievably cool if each one had it's own unique area and closing them actually did something but Bethesda isn't a team of superheroes.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:40 pm

As opposed to the grotesque amount of Oblivion Gates there are only 20 or so Dragons. I heard there was a limited number of them. There may be to little and it would take several playthroughs for us to get are fill.
Still Oblivions gates get interesting again when you stop visiting them for a while.

I'm not sure how it works. You don't get shouts by killing them, but their souls enable you to learn them from walls in dungeons. I look at it like ADAM from Bioshock.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:54 pm

I can't really be certain at this time, of course, though I think the most important thing is whether or not Bethesda can keep dragon fights from becoming repetitive. We're told that they're actions are non-scripted and unpredictable, but this doesn't guarentee that fights against dragons won't eventually start to feel like you're just doing the same thing over and over again. If Bethesda can truly succeed in making dragons not repetitive, I think that will help a lot. Also, another factor that contributrd to making Oblivion gates tedious was that they tended to be very long and drawn out. I've sometimes spent multiple in-game days on one Oblivion gate, and these are things you'd probably do many times over the course of the game, in scenery that gets rather repetitive. Oblivion gates were often much longer than they needed to be, or really should have been,which was made even more annoying by the fact that often, you really didn't actually have to traverse that much space, but there was forced longevity due to impassable barriers that could only be circumvented using fairly indrect paths, often, you could just see the tower right there, but needed to go through a long network of caves to reach it due to hills too steep to climb in the way. Hopefully with Skyrim's dragons, Bethesda will remember that while they can't be killed too quickly or they won't feel suitably epic, they also shouldn't get carried a way and draw out each dragon fight to the point that it stops being epic and just becomes annoying.

Good points here. I really hope the fights are good ones. But I also hope dragons come along too often. Maybe one every 10 in game days or a bit more at the climix of the Main storyline, or if you go into known "dragon lands" if you can call it that.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:03 pm

Hello Skyrim Community,

I have a very interesting concern that I do not believe has been brought up previously. With that being said, I truly loved the idea of Oblivion gates and taking the fight to the enemy on their home turf. However, after one Oblivion gate to the next, the task became more tedious and more of a job, than something actually enjoyable and fun. Now my question to all of you is will dragons be the new Oblivion gates in Skyrim? There is no right or wrong answer to this question, but merely your own personal opinions, and I would like to hear them. From what we have heard about the development of dragons, they sound absolutely amazing and not being scripted is only icing on the cake. However, could they at one point in time become more of a job than actually something that's fun?

May the spoils of Skyrim be ours!

Redguard King

As due to Oblivion is it even possible for oblivion gates to open in the province anymore? i mean other then the ones you get though via the worshipers.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:03 am

I'll wait and see. I rather enjoyed the Oblivion Gate parts of the game. They were far, FAR, more interesting than the typical "step and fetch it" responsibilities of the other faction related quests. I daresay even far more interesting than the typical dungeon and ruin crawls.

Oblivion's pity was that there were no really good water or sea adventures save the one where you wake up at sea already. Afterall, isn't this the same team of thinkers that gave us Sea Dogs? I know it probably won't happen, but I would love to see at least a few longship battles with dragons either at sea or on the coastline.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:35 pm

Oblivion gates turned into going invisible, making a dash to the Sigil Stone, and winning. I would be disappointed if dragons are just a glorified extermination quest. I'm hoping there will be all kinds of quests and such involving dragons, and plot twists and such that make the plot more than what it seems to be.

I voted other. I have no idea.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:57 pm

I voted yes, and I think if most people were honest they'd vote yes as well, but hear me out.

Every game gets a little boring or tedious after a certain amount of time. The difference here is, with TES games..... it takes a LONG time for me to find them boring or tedious. In Oblivion I still enjoyed closing gates way into it, I remember exploring nonstop so I could close every single one after I found out what the max number of gate spawns could be.

I'm sure this will be no different, I'll enjoy it for quite awhile, but everything gets old.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:07 pm

I think fighting a dragon is more beneficial (if you don't die anyways) than going in a gate and getting a sigil stone.
Plus fighting them could be fun because they've been working on them for TWO YEARS.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:05 pm

As due to Oblivion is it even possible for oblivion gates to open in the province anymore? i mean other then the ones you get though via the worshipers.

No they aren't able to appear anymore. The post you quoted was wondering if dragons will become something tedious and boring like the Oblivion gates became after a while.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:29 pm

Oblivion gates do not actively hunt for you after a point in the quest

Oblivion gates do not give you the methods to learn the power of an ancient force

Oblivion gates are not the herald of the end of time and existence.

Oblivion gates do not have AI.

Oblivion Gates do not attack towns

Oblivion gates aren't a threat outside the players view

Dragon's don't sit in one place waiting for you to come.

Dragons aren't exclusively addressable by the player.

Dragons fight back.

Dragons aren't cookie cutter instances, their are different Dragons with different powers.

Dragons do not have sigil stones

Dragons are not affiliated with a Deadric prince.

Dragons aren't a chore, they are a threat to the gameworld and can f things up.

Dragons can take down a player at early levels.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:38 pm

I think that dragons will kinda be like Oblivion gates, but will be executed much better so they don't become pain, but remain to be fun.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:30 pm

Oblivion gates do not actively hunt for you after a point in the quest

Oblivion gates do not give you the methods to learn the power of an ancient force

Oblivion gates are not the herald of the end of time and existence.

Oblivion gates do not have AI.

Oblivion Gates do not attack towns

Oblivion gates aren't a threat outside the players view

Dragon's don't sit in one place waiting for you to come.

Dragons aren't exclusively addressable by the player.

Dragons fight back.

Dragons aren't cookie cutter instances, their are different Dragons with different powers.

Dragons do not have sigil stones

Dragons are not affiliated with a Deadric prince.

Dragons aren't a chore, they are a threat to the gameworld and can f things up.

Dragons can take down a player at early levels.

Well said. I have to agree. The only connection with the OB gates is that they are here from the big bad guy and you have to destroy them somehow.

Their are similarities between big daddies, most notably they both guard creepy little girls.

Edit: Oh shoot I forgot, Oblivion gates aren't cute adorable wittle dwagons.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:45 pm

Keep in mind that dragons are obviously not identical to Oblivion gates. The point though is that they both represent important aspects of both games. Instead of having to go into Oblivion gates this time around, we will be slaying dragons. The question is will they stay fun and interesting? This isn't about if they will be more entertaining than Oblivion gates (I think they will be). The question is whether or not they will stay interesting, or will they ultimately just become a cool concept that gets old after a while?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:42 pm

I think fighting a dragon is more beneficial (if you don't die anyways) than going in a gate and getting a sigil stone.
Plus fighting them could be fun because they've been working on them for TWO YEARS.

Keep in mind, I believe it was only four animators that were actually working on the dragons. While they definitely look amazing and life-like, that doesn't mean they will ultimately transition well in-game and stay fresh and fun over a long period of game time. I personally still think the concept of Oblivion gates was amazing. It was everything I wanted and hoped to see in Oblivion, but it ultimately just didn't have the longevity I hoped it would. Will dragons just become another chore to work on unlocking that next shout?

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:18 am

Keep in mind, I believe it was only four animators that were actually working on the dragons. While they definitely look amazing and life-like, that doesn't mean they will ultimately transition well in-game and stay fresh and fun over a long period of game time. I personally still think the concept of Oblivion gates was amazing. It was everything I wanted and hoped to see in Oblivion, but it ultimately just didn't have the longevity I hoped it would. Will dragons just become another chore to work on unlocking that next shout?

only 4? I thought there was 20 people in total working on all aspects of Dragons in Skyrim, as stated "they wanted to get it right"

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:52 pm

I need more information about the dragon's before I can fairly answer this. As it stands right now, I would say that they would always be exciting. But if they all do the same things over and over and are found as often as the OB gates, then it could become redundant and dry.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:25 pm

Hopefully, the experience of fighting a dragon is fun, although in theory dragon fights sound like they would go in a similar fashion everytime you fought one, and thus would get boring quickly. The continuous addition of Dragon Shouts will give us the reward, and will provide more entertainment the next time we face off with a dragon.

It could be said that:
The continuous addition of Sigil Stones gave us the reward, and was supposed to provide more entertainment the next time...

Aye, unless ther's something different in the encounters, I'm pretty meh on the whole idea of dragons. :shrug:

Maybe some will use different tactics? Maybe the encounter loaction will be so varied so that it poses different challenges?

:shrug:

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:13 am

LOL, people still believing, dragon are not scripted (yeah real AI right! lol)
LOL, people are still believing the dragons will kill the world if you don t do the main quest. (AKA: game will end after some time, or some chain of events)

I would REAAALLLY love to see both of above, the later more than the former.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:16 pm

No one said the Dragons are going the end the game, but as far as what can be gathered at this point they attack towns and cause trouble, this has been said, it has also been said the dragons have AI. I don't think They'd talk out of their asses regarding such features.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:53 am

Fighting dragons in different locales (like forest, or mountains, or a city, etc.) will make the experiences way better than Oblivion gates, where it's just the same old lava and blood every time. Plus, maybe different dragons will have different styles, like a spellcasting dragon or a combat dragon. Chances are, Bethesda will make it good.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:43 pm

the fears are legitimate but the same aspects of overthinking apply to Dragons as it did Gates.

Before Oblivion many surmised that when Gates appeared flows of deadra would go acorss the land destroying everything in their path, forests would burn villages would get ransacked, and if the players let things stand to long things would get worse.

it didnt

so 5 years later Historic repetition.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 4:43 pm

dragon fights could be handled so many different ways that it may not become boring.

For instance if the AI is any good; when you battle the dragon and it gets close to death the dragon could retreat. If the dragon retreats to its cave that means it could turn into a tracking adventure. where did that thing fly off too? chase after it to find out.
if the AI isnt any good, then you beat the heck out of the dragon till it dies just like any other monster. this will become boring to an extent. oh... another dragon for me to kill, button mashing time.

Im going to have to fight some dragons to find out myself.

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:14 pm

Just thought of this. I hope the majority of the dragon's are visually unique, I don't want to fight 20 identical dragons . . .

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:53 am

Hello Skyrim Community,

I have a very interesting concern that I do not believe has been brought up previously. With that being said, I truly loved the idea of Oblivion gates and taking the fight to the enemy on their home turf. However, after one Oblivion gate to the next, the task became more tedious and more of a job, than something actually enjoyable and fun. Now my question to all of you is will dragons be the new Oblivion gates in Skyrim? There is no right or wrong answer to this question, but merely your own personal opinions, and I would like to hear them. From what we have heard about the development of dragons, they sound absolutely amazing and not being scripted is only icing on the cake. However, could they at one point in time become more of a job than actually something that's fun?

May the spoils of Skyrim be ours!

Redguard King

» Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:39 pm

todd said that dragons could randomly attack a town so im not to worried