I've checked, the auto-updates appear to be like those obnoxious GFWL updates. Non-declinable. Also in regards to the solution of A, sure it's a solution, but why should we be FORCED to do that? God forbid we get to choose where each game gets installed, eh?

True, and I agree it would be nice to be able to give them unique paths - but it's very much a niche demand, steam is designed partially as distribution and partially as a center to launch games, knowing the filepaths is somewhat unimportant. For moddable games like Oblivion, a shortcut would be quite useful, but being able to specify the filepath is really a very minor thing here.

Which is a moot point when talking about a single player game. Why should I need to maintain a separate agreement for an online-based account with Valve (a third party) to play an offline game from Bethesda? An agreement that, if for any reason is broken (through my fault, Valve's, or even a fourth party), can affect my ability to play that game? If I buy a physical game through Best Buy, and I run into problems later with Best Buy, I can keep playing the games I bought through them. With Steam, I may not be able to keep playing, which is why I don't want to deal with them. Especially for games I'm going to be playing for a long, long time.

The more time goes on, the more likely a problem is to occur. I, and other people, don't want to take the chance of such a problem occuring that can irrevocably block access to games we paid good money for. You want to take that risk? Great, more power to you. Hope it works out in the long run (honestly). Just don't force us to take those unnecessary risks.

" Hear ye Hear ye, do not sail so far as ye might actually sail off the edge of the planet" "The end of Steam is here, repent and turn back lest you face your impending doom" Honest to god all you need is some wearable billboards and were back in the 1200's.

I still fail to see why we should be FORCED to use an online service to play a game that's completely offline, and then depend on the goodwill of a corporation to be able to play this game forever. Let's try an anology.

Bob (Bethesda) wants to rent out (game license) his house. So he rents it to Sue (our gamer). But the rental agreement states that Jack (Valve) who lives across town can evict Sue at any time for any reason, and she has to hope he doesn't. Oh and she has to ask Jack to open the house every time she comes home, because she wasn't given the key, Jack was.

I prefer a simple disc check or Steam. I won't buy if it uses a Ubisoft DRM, neither always on or just at start up. I also hate having to have an account with the game maker, I always end up forgetting what he original name and password of the account was because I don't use it otherwise and it is such a hassle. I actually think twice about games that want this, I may even pass on DA2 for now.

The landlord in your anology is perfectly within his rights to draw up any rules he wants as long as its within the law. If Sue doesn't like it Sue knows where to go. People need to understand The actual game is NOT yours. you have the right to play it and thats it. You do NOT own it. If you don't like the rules that come with it then don't buy it. But for the love of god stop stamping your feet about it like a 5 year old.

You just don't get the fact we don't want to be forced to use Steam. You think we are all luddites or something? Heck, 90% of all games I buy are digital but thru other sources like Impulse. Heck, if I buy a game thru Impulse after it's installed I can actually uninstall Impulse and forget it even exists and still play the game I bought. Try that with Steam.

And again you confuse the issue. You can still buy and play Skyrim thru Steam even if it doesn't use Steamworks for the DRM. So what exactly is your problem again? You just can't stand a game not using Steamworks and forcing people into Steam?

Never said the situation is not legal. Doesn't mean we have to put up with it, though. Just like Sue, we can and will say "no deal". We, however, want to buy the game and give Bethesda our money, and we're letting Bethesda know what we're willing to put up with to do so.

Disk label based disk check.
If that's not an option then steam.

Steam please as long as it doesnt affect or make modding difficult. I know its to late but please dont use games for windows. Its so so so so so so so so so so bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

So then go play it on console.

Don't have one, nor the money to get one. But even if I did, they don't support mods, and IMO, it's a bit silly to buy a $200+ machine (with sub-standard controls) to play one $60 game.

And if , like me, you don't always have Internet service what then?
I would have to completely depend on a cracked version IF I still wanted to play such a game that can only be played on an always on Internet connection.
A one time activation should be all that is necessary.
as a side note...I would like to see it sold on a USB drive instead of a DVD.

I honestly dont care wether it uses steam as DRM or not. My problem is with people throwin hissyfits with Skyrim like they did with New Vegas. NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE. Don't like it ? Play it on console or dont play it at all.

Yep. Having a folder of all the various patch files, so that you can update to the version you want, is nice. (Also, if you uninstall & reinstall games, not having to download the patches every time you reinstall is also nice.)

You do need at least a little DRM. Lazy people will steal a no-DRM game, but even something as minor as a disk-check will cut off alot of that.

This.
Steam can kiss my butt :verymad:

Many bought PS3 for the sole reason or running Linux on it. Then Sony just decides to remove that possibility and the buyers have paid a fair amount of money for an item they can't use. It's about consumer rights, of which Digital Restriction Management completely ignores. I mean, who does something like that? Only Sony? Guess again. It's ignorant to think that Steam won't do anything similar.

I'd be happy for a diskcheck or one time online authentication without the need to install random programs I don't need or sign up to random services I don't need.

I suppose none is out of the question...

I'm not suggesting it could never happen. But to hinge your whole argument on what "could" happen but hasn't happened yet is a bit silly. Like I was saying earlier if I decide never to venture outside because I MIGHT get mugged is a bit silly. Plus, your honestly telling me people didn't know it wasnt a possibility ? There wasn't a...oh I dunno lets call it a LICENSE AGREEMENT which might have stated....er... oh gosh lets say something along the lines of WE RESERVE THE RIGHT TO CHANGE OR CANCEL THIS SERVICE WITHOUT NOTICE for aguments sake, and people were shocked when they did ?

You see people (myself included) gloss over all this stuff without reading it and there are stunned when it happens. My whole point is when you sign/click accept YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS. you have acknowleged that you are giving your money to a service that might not be there when you wake up. Thats the chance you take. if you do not agree DO NOT HAND YOUR MONEY OVER.!

So you agree that it's a terrible sales philosophy and should be resisted whenever possible.

The PS3 is primarily a gaming machine. Steam is primarily a digital distribution network. If steam started failing at their primary purpose, their sales would tank - they're popular because they're good, they'd be mad to start becoming unreliable.

I'm saying nobody is forcing you to accept the rules. there is a decline button. thats why they call it a choice.

You apparently have an interesting view of what mods are. I also do not buy games for the specific purpose of modding them. However, I will buy "Skyrim" because of the reason that it is moddable. Mods do make the perfect game...for me. They make the game as I would like it to be for a playthrough. Plus, they can make the game play completely different, thus you get a completely different game, in effect.

As far as Steam, this has nothing to do with that per se, just your comment on consoles being the same as the PC version struck me as odd, considering there is no real comparison.