Other: Ask for CD-key once.
Reason: Everything else gets cracked in less than a week and then piracy is not only free, but better.

This turned out to be another steam tread

I see whats the main problem, one is this :

C. NO GUARANTEES.

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S).

and the other is forceing the use of steam...



Nobody answered my question so i'll ask again . Regarding this no guarantees, it basically states "we don't care, you alone, hurr"... why they help ppl that lost their account [lost password, lost username, stolen accounts, etc] ? Eh, why? The EULA surely covers their asses, so why are they doing it? Why they do refunds? Why they even have support?

While i wholeheartly agree that you should not be forced to use steam if you don't like it and is should be optional, they didn't made the DRM that way witch svcks and i don't think we can go around it

So don't get your morale down if it uses Steamworks, DRM systems svck but we gotta adapt somehow - am not saying we should force ourself to like them, we just need to move forward, it's just a [censored] game after all, not such a big deal

True. But stating that we disagree, and why, helps make the developers aware that there's dissatisfaction, and can lead to change. Sometimes.

So you dont buy games for the purpose of modding but you're going to buy skyrim because you can mod it ?.....Wow...just wow.

Not for the "sole" purpose, no. Your words, not mine.

Steam has an offline mode.

Anyway, I'd rather the game not have any sort of DRM at all, but that probably won't happen.

View PostLord_Jaroh, on 25 February 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:
However, I will buy "Skyrim" because of the reason that it is moddable.<<<<< Your words I think.

Because they felt like it. There are also people that've lost their accounts that they haven't helped. They may have reasons for helping those that do, but it ultimately comes down to 'because they wanted to', not 'because they had to'. And if I would ever have a problem with my account, I don't want to rely on their good will to be able to continue playing the games I paid good money for.

Absolutely NEVER heard they refuse to help someone if they lost their account, you need to back that up a bit.

Yeah right, they play coin toss and say "Oh hey, we are not gonna help you couse we don't feel like it, lololol!" You can't be [censored] serious, you think they'd be having millions of customers if they go with that attitude?

You're wasting your time mate. Bang your head against a brick wall, you'll get further.

Nice hyberbole. As I said, they may have reasons, but it comes down to the fact that it's because they want to, not because they have to.

As for lost Steam accounts with no help, here's a case found in a quick Google search: http://meandmymac.net/987/lost-my-steam-account-again/

Funny. PayPal creates an issue with Valve, which prevents access to games that you legally bought and have on your machine.

And those are yours. Notice the bold? I said that I don't generally buy games solely for modding, but for Skyrim I am, mainly based on what was done for Oblivion, and what I had read about Morrowind. But generally, I buy games without the modding. I bought Fallout 3 on the PS3, and that was a mistake. I should have purchased it for the computer, at least for the mods that patch the game. But hindsight is 20/20.

I read the article and I cant help but get the feeling we're not being told the full story. Why doesn't it say he contacted Paypal to find out what the issue was ?

Worse companies like Bethesda will get lots of angry customers and will get angry at steam soon the get more visits from layers than customers. Sony could do that they wanted with PS3, as it was theirs, yes if they changed it so some games stop working they might get in problems with the publisher.

Keep Steamworks AWAY from future games. It's a pure, unnecessary bloatware which only punishes legitimate users. It makes somewhat sense for multiplayer-oriented games, but for single player only titles, it's THE WORST SOLUTION.
I do not promote piracy (!!!), but pirated copies have Steam requirement completely ripped out, so why should honest gamers get the inferior version with mandatory Steam integration? There's no benefit to Steamworks. What, useless achievements or cloud saving? Please, don't make me laugh.

Bethesda games have a lot of problems on their own (Oblivion was the worst TES game ever), adding problematic spyware DRM like Steam even on RETAIL copies is too much.

Sell your games on Steam, but don't make them Steam exclusive!!!

He apparently broke the EULA, should have contacted support in the first place and not revoke the payment by himself. But they didn't told him to go [censored] himself and tried to help... Probably the legal side of the things got the better of the situation. Yes, EULA is a wall of text but not reading it may surprise you badly as in this case. I haven't read it, btw

Also he acted kinda stupid and impatient - creating more tickets will only slow the process of resolving the issue, he should have created one ticked and reply to it with all the details for the issue.

They just drone that there is a issue and i need to contact paypal. Yea, and what are they gonna do about it? [censored] all! - apparently there is some issue with paypal, maybe the problem was there and not with the store? I too got many error when i purchased things but never a double charge for a product, so it may well be a problem with paypal and got nothing to do with steam...

All I've learned from this thread so far is people like Markus hate choice. "HOW DARE OTHER PEOPLE GET WHAT THEY WANT" is what you're sounding like.

In summary, what we're trying to say is this: Don't make it Steam exclusive.

Exactly. Those 49% of people are Steam fanatics. 51% does NOT want mandatory Steam.

Here we go, I'm the bad guy because I happen to support a non-intrusive system that I personally have had no problems with. Yeah, maybe I should adopt your attitude of hating it for no other viable reason other than the fact that I can. Oh and then I'll cry about it because I can't get Bethesda to change their minds. Why dont you go off and find a proper reason to dislike steam and then we can continue this little debate.

What really irks me is the fact that you as a disliker of steam made a poll and asked others what they thought, and you're jumping down MY throat for standing up for it ?

What if they make it GFWL exclusive, eh? It's hundred times worse than steam and you'll hate it even more... I'm allright with steam but ppl like you are not, so I'll say don't make it ANY exclusive, let ppl decide for them-self witch version to buy and not force them to choose, i've said that couppla o times already... This way you will be pleased and get a steam free version and i will be pleased to get a steam version.

But in the end it's not you or me to decide witch DRM system the game will use, it's Bethesda. At this point we can only speculate about it, BUT if they decide to go with ANY exclusive DRM system you and i will either have to adapt to it or just don't play the game, it svcks but it is what it is...

Consoles, porting and "wider audience" thinking are the reasons PC gaming is going down the drains, not software piracy. Piracy was as prevalent in the early '90s (when PC games were truly innovative) as it is today, and I dare say it did a lot to spread the word about games that would not even be known otherwise (before the Internet, that is). Today, games are often made for several different platforms, which means that PC players always get shafted, as they have to put up with the lowest common denominator stuff that console players are satisfied with, as it's the console games that sell.

Even Oblivion, great as it is, showed some signs of being compromised for the Xbox, and it took the PC modding community to make it truly magnificent. Why were so many skills removed from Morrowind (which had the perfect number IMO), and hardcoded so? The end result was a compromise, where Xbox players who can't use mods are left with a game that is vastly inferior to the PC version in the long run, and PC players are left with a game that even with all the great mods is not QUITE all it could be, because of hardcoded limitations catering to the Xbox. The only way to bring back true greatness to PC gaming would be to completely seperate PCs and consoles, but I don't see any chance of that happening.

i went for steam because it works, is usually simple, and i really like steam
although i do feel sorry for one of my friends who's going to get this, (on PC, no consoles) and doesn't have internet...

I remember playing Elite on the Amiga years ago and being absolutley gobsmacked by it. I had hours of fun playing that game. If you tried to sell that to younger people today they'd laugh at you. While I think we have made great strides in graphical terms, I think people are putting way too much emphasis on it being the only reason to buy a game. We got what we got back then and we were stuck with it which is why I think todays generation is somewhat like the spoiled brat in the sense that they are never happy with what they are getting and if they dont like something they throw a tantrum. ( god i feel all depressed now thinking back haha)

About the topic, I have two major demands of whichever method of copy protection the developer chooses:

1. That I actually fully own the copy I buy and can do what I want with it. That means no "constant internet connection", which means that the game might be unplayable at a future date or even days with bad connection, and no "limited installs" or "can't resell" BS.

2. That I don't have to install additional software, either third party online crap or local pests like StarForce. GTA IV is a perfect nightmare example. "No, I don't want to install Games for Windows, I just want to play the game". "No, I don't want to install Rockstar Social Club, I don't care about "sharing my achievements", I just want to PLAY THE GAME". I couldn't even start the game without installing a patch through GFW, which it initially refused to do since I apparently didn't have something called "Silverlight" installed. That's four additional installs before even getting the game to START!

It's one thing if you're asked to install GameSpy Arcade or whatever, which you can just decline and never hear from again, but when you're actually forced to install additional programs just to get the damn thing to work, that's more likely to make me hate the game before even starting to play. I will never, ever give Rockstar my money again for this simple reason that GTA IV pissed me off so much with all the surrounding hassle. And now UbiSoft can also go to hell after killing Silent Hunter V.