This may just be me, but i've never had major problems with steam, sometimes the store page doesnt show up so i just go on the actual internet page, other times i can't play MW2 for a little bit. but its not end of the world. Plus Steam has amazing deals on games like i just bought Assassin's Creed, Call of Juarlez, Far Cry 2, and Rainbow Vegas 2 for $13 and there are new deals every weekend. oh and lets say your house burns down, or a burglar steals all your games, for god knows what reason, with steam you can install the games on any computer you want.

And this is where it gets fun and the anti-Steam arguments break down.

Let me dissect your argument and address your concers, though I feel what I say is falling on deaf ears.

Firstly, you decided that you didn't like Steam because it used a whopping 20-30MB of your 8GB. Then it accuses you of being a thief. And then it turns out it is also useless.

I think I can safely assume that you only ever play DRM free games?? And that you don't have an Xbox 360 or a PS3 either, in case they update your games for you. I'm gunna go ahead and take a leap of faith and assume I'm correct when I say you've never been on a plane, as you didn't feel comfortable of being accused of plotting terrorist attacks at the security gate. Nor do use any websites that use something like CAPTCHA, because they accuse you of being a bot. Must be hard taking offense to so many things.

I'm also guessing that when you're browser needs updating, instead of just letting it do it itself, you actually go out of your way to download the latest full release?? Similarly I imagine you do this with all of the software you have on your computer.

On a less satirical note;

What's the problem with Steam updating your games for yo??. I'm sure you can download patches yourself, but why would you want to go to extra effort?? Never mind the fact that just because you don't like the fact Steam does this, doesn't make it useless.
On piracy, I have no answer, as nothing really stops pirates, just delays them. But that's the same with everything, and something as user friendly as Steam by far justifies the fact it's trying to protect the gaming industry. If indeed this needs any justification at all.
On digital software, I'm sure you've heard this before; "Times, they are a changing" - Bob Dylan. I'm sure you have no problem using freeware (one example being the web browser you are using). I can understand people that are worried about Steam collapsing and/or disappearing and taking their games with them, but in the future you're going to just have to get used to it. Digital software is here to stay. And again, the sales and such are not useless for people that do buy digital software, so that's a moot point. Fair enough you won't buy the games, but that's no reason to boycott Steam in the hope that it "gets out of the game" so that other people can't take advantage of this.

You're argument started off pretty bad as it is, then just sort of devolved into almost mindless hate that is based on nothing more then what seems to be a misguided vendetta.

I hope that you don't buy Skyrim, so that you miss out on what a great PC experience it is bound to be. After all it is your prerogative, and I doubt your wallet is big enough to affect Bethesda in the slightest, even if you do manage to sway a few people to your unfounded beliefs.

EDIT:



I challenge you to uninstall Tages or Securom. Or better yet try and install the game on several different machines, and see how many activations you get . I'm sure you'll run into some troubles. Also, what problems did you have with Steam, out of interest??

Here in Canada the Internet is metered because the ISPs are a bunch of dinosaurs. Would Valve be willing to pay for my Internet bills to download all my games? Didn't think so.

Or you could just, you know, buy the disc copy and then install it from the disc??

After multiple attempts at installing and updating then having to remove/replace going through the clientblob replacing, once the client was installed and updated I then had error messages regarding problems connecting with the Steam server, wanting to be fair and see if there really was a problem at my end I tried Rockstar Social Club and GFWL with no problems. After five hours I'd had enough as I felt I'd given Steam yet another chance.

Tried this a few months back as well when I found an old demo of Zeno Clash on disc, the faff on to get that to co-operate with Steam was about four hours that time. After finally getting it to play nice I thought, "Ok, so now I can put it in the much vaunted and defended offline mode" that didn't work either, just popping up messages wanting to be reconnected and not allowing me to play this demo until I'd reconnected to then try and go offline (unsuccessfully) again. Still curious to play the demo I let it stay online and really enjoyed the demo. After the hassle though with Steam I decided it wouldn't be worth buying.

And back with Half-Life 2's release. Well the less said about that the better.

Securom was no problem, used the removal tool that was released for it and that worked fine. Tages has a removal tool also, never had cause to use it however so can't verify it's effectiveness.

I'm running multiple desktops and have had no problems whether it be revoking activations or removing DRM software *yet*.

All apart from Steam which has been nothing but a hassle and a key factor in deciding if I get a title.

I mentioned Stalker before as some mods that I have kept saved require different patch versions, which I also kept saved. The auto patching service would make those mods redundant. Defences of "just turn it off in the options" don't apply when the auto update is required before a first run.

Oh ill play Skyrim alright, but ill be damned if its going to be through steam.


You fail to understand why many people prefer PC gaming. It hardly has anything to do with graphics or mods, though those are bonuses. For me personally, I prefer PC gaming because its a hobby. I pay the big bucks for hardware because it feels good. And on top of that, I am able to control EXACTLY what is on my computer. With the inclusion of steam as a requirement, that throws my control over my computer out the window.

And yes, I DO want to manually install updates. I want to be able to dictate where all programs get installed and not have to circumvent it with a system link on MY OWN computer...

Steam removes control, and that's why there's lots of people (including me) who don't like it.

I highly doubt that it will be steam exclusive. This is an Elder Scrolls game we're talking about, forcing people to download a large GB game like that is [censored]. They will have retail copies like they always have. Bethseda is not the kind of developer that does [censored] like that to it's players. A mainly single player game having to have online connectivity is in itself stupid. It will also probably be available on steam for those whom choose to get it that way. But it will not be steam exclusive. I say this with a near certainty. Calm down, and stop making these idiotic threads. Thank you.

Drago, since you're late to the party:
You can have a retail game require Steam. See: every Valve game.

Maybe in some places. No for me yet. I'm assuming it's coming soon, expected cap to be about 250 gb per month, and only if you're on 30 or 100.

oh no, my absolute control over everything is gone. Curse you Steam, curse you!!!

The point of gaming on a computer is because of the absolute control you get over your games. Steam takes that control and ships it down the river.

It is what it is. Did you think games would be DRM free forever? It's probably going to be more so in the next few years.

Then I guess I'll have to stop buying games.

Absolute control on a PC is an illusion.

Also I'm pretty sure you can just disable the auto-updater somewhere...

But that still does not address the problem of people that a: do not have an internet connection, because of where they live, and b: the do not own a ps3 or a Xbox 360. How can making the game Steam dependent help them? Or better yet, those that live in an area that only has dial-up internet, and there are many areas like that in the USA, and the dial-up takes 3-4 hours just to download 10mb. That is what dial-up does in my area of Ohio. That would not be good if steam had to spend that long updating when you only had that amount of time to play the game. That is why DRMs are bad, because they do not take into consideration what other companies like phone companies etc are doing.

Steam should be made optional, completely. Make it to where either you use it to check the game, or it does a disk check, then everyone can play the game.

You can't disable it when it's installing, meaning if you get a new Windows install/hard drive failure then you're forced to patch it during install.

3 to 4 hours to download 10 megs??? OMG!! Way back in the early 90's, on 28.8 dial-up, I could do 10 megs in less than 1 hour. If that's the internet you have today, damn!

My ISP has a contract with the province to provide, even rural areas, high speed internet. I'm not in the sticks, but not far off... I thought the US would at least be as up to date as some parts in Canada.

I'm not late to the party, and of course Valve games require steam. Steam is Valves software and service. Why would they NOT have their games require their software? And so does every game that uses VAC, which is also Valves software, does Betheseda need or use any of Valves software? No. Will it be steam exclusive? More than likely not. Any more dumb points you'd like to share with the forum?

No Drago, you seem to be doing quite well on your own in that department.

Different game, same publisher... FNV was single player, req'd Steam for authentication. Just sayin'

It would be nice if they went ahead and resolved this. However, don't expect for anything to be announced until late summer at the earliest (Aug. or Sept.). DRM is just not a good selling point for a product, and companies like Bethesda know this. And given the concern that has been repeatedly expressed in these forums, I would imagine that Bethesda does not want to get into the touchy business of announcing the DRM for Skyrim until they've had a chance to do a full advertisemant blitz and to encourage a lot of preorders with DLC bonuses and what not. That will take place over the summer.

In any event, you can probably assume that the longer we go without an official announcement, the less apetitizing the DRM will be since companies tend to wait until the last minute to announcement unpleasant news.

No, I now have DSL, thankfully. But where I live in Ohio, we just were able to have DSL about 2 years ago, and it is only available from the telephone company. Now granted, yes there is satellite internet, but that is not cost affective. But back when I had dial-up it took forever to download anything. But that was because of the lines it would not transfer at 56k speed, the most it would ever transfer at was 10kps, that is why it took forever. That was with either AOL or MSN ISP.

It is because where I live in in the middle of two different line types, so underground it has the fiber optic cables, but above ground it still has the old regular wire that was put in in the 1960s. So anytime it rains the telephone goes out. But that is AT&T for you, the lines are all theirs.

Comparing the XBox to the PC isn't the same. The XBox is a console designed to play games. My computer isn't just for playing games. Any kind of DRM that consoles might use, not sure about their protection, has no affect because I have no control over anything on the XBox. I do have control over my PC and I refuse to use DRM or Steam on it. If that means I go to XBox soley for my games, than so be it. Others will do the same. As far as digital downloads, when I pay for software I want a physical DVD in my hands. The only software I download will be free software. Why? When I pay for something I want it in my hands, not some digital copy that has no substance. I will stop gaming before I buy digial download games.

You don't have to agree with my reasons for not using Steam, but my reasons are just as valid as any reason you have for using it.

One of the main reason they would be using Steam is to prevent the selling of used games. Think about it, this happens way more than piracy and I think they are smart enough to know that they can't stop pirates by now. Personally, I would like to see a DRM retail disk with an optional Steam key. Many (such as myself) want to use the features of Steam with Skyrim, but I also want to buy the Collector's Edition.