By ignorant I mean ignorant in the features of Steam. People have said that its takes up all their RAM and CPU cycles while in actual fact it takes up a tiny percentage. Ignorant and Exaggerated.

My comment wasn't targeted at you specifically. You have every right to not use or dislike Steam.
It gets me angry that someone will say, "I don't like Steam, because [vague, misinformed or exaggerated statement]"
Either state a LEGIT reason or don't, but don't make up some BS.

Now that I am really pissed off... I have not been vague, I thought that I have been pretty detailed. On the few days that I have off from driving trucks I don't want to be bothered with something like Steam when I start up my game. I do have a crappy computer so steam does hit my performance. I live in the boonies so I do have crappy internet. I was not attacking Steam. I was questioning Bethesdas judgment on making NV dependent on Steam for it's proper operation and hoping that they would at least give me a CHOICE with Skyrim. If people would only read exactly what I post and not try to read INTO it it would have been clear. In short, I want to put a disc into my crappy computer and play a game and not worry about my crappy internet because within 48 hours I will more than likely be driving a truck across the country to your nearest distribution center and dropping off a load of crap for the next three weeks before having another two days off.

I just want a choice... My goodness, this is like having old hand-me-down undies forced upon me by my mother saying, "But they match and don't have holes"...

It's fair enough that you want to have a choice in the matter, who wouldn't?

But the software company is going to develop the game in the way that makes the most sense to them. The choice that you want is very unsafe for the developer, so none would ever do that. Handing you a disk and walking away is essentially the same thing as putting their game on the internet free to download. It would ruin them.

So the choice that you are asking for is simply unworkable. That's the problem.

Lauren_dr:


I don't -mean- to come off like an ass... or like I'm targeting your specifically... but I'm aware that sometimes, I instinctively do give a bit of that inflection. Rest assured that I'm not directly referring to you. It's because, at heart, I'm an ass. Not much I can do about that... except try my best to clarify when my inner jerkwad gets the better of me.

So: To Clarify -

It's not that I'm trying to say you're ignorant or stupid or... or... I'm sure there are more words to describe people I don't like with, but given that I have a toothache, nothing is really coming to mind.

The fact of the matter is, I'm -not- even all that concerned with whether you buy the game.

Really, what does it matter to me?


At the end of the day, the only person effected by your decision is you.

But I really do mean it: What do you expect them to do?


If you don't want steam, the most popular system globally for digital distribution and management because of its unobtrusiveness and ease of use (and un-installation if need-be), then what -do- you want? Because if it's "No DRM"... then you're never going to be happy... because those days are gone. They're just not going to come back, and nothing anybody does is going to change that.

If you've got a better solution, though, I'm sure we'd ALL love to hear it.

Steam isn't perfect... but it's not this utter trash folks are trying to slam it as.

And to say that it's worthless, -that- is just plain willful ignorance. If it was so worthless, it wouldn't be half as popular. Everyone has to hate something. Some people choose things like that neighbor who lets their dog crap in their lawn. Others, they choose things like DVR, Self-Propelled Vacuum Cleaners, and Steam.

So you have a few choices. You can play the righteous indignation card, fly off the handle, and declare that Steam is powered by Satan and the fires of Hell. You can design a better solution to Steam and all the current DRM alternatives out there and make millions (or hundreds of millions) in selling it to companies desperately searching for the anti-piracy answer. Hell, you could even admit that your problem wasn't a universal one, and that there were most likely some outlying circumstances which contributed to the troubles you had... and just settle for having said you hoped they didn't use Steam.

... or you can tell us all what you want instead.


At the end of the day, it doesn't make the least bit of difference to me... but you can bet your bojangles that when people start spreading false information, I'll call 'em out on it if I know better.

I don't do it because I want the people spreading the bogus crap to believe me. It doesn't matter to me if you believe me or not. What matters is making sure that people who genuinely WANT to know the answer to questions like 'what are the pros and cons' get information that is accurate. Not scared away by people who tried the thing once, had a bad experience, and decided to go on a smear campaign.

There's plenty of room for legitimate discussion regarding Steam.

When you have to sift through walls of misquotes and baseless accusations that aren't true to get to that discussion, however... it needlessly causes other folks to worry. Folks who deserve an honest, straight-truth answer. I should know. I was one of those other folks looking for genuine answers, once, myself. I don't argue against things that are genuinely wrong with Steam. I argue against things that are blatant lies or otherwise no longer apply... in hopes of helping other people find the answers they're after, and deciding for themselves whether to play the game or not.

If that makes me the bad guy, so be it. I'm the bad guy. I'm the guy who's not going to sit here and watch people be misled, one way or the other. If someone shows up and starts telling blatant lies about Steam's great features, and I know they're not true... you can rest assured I'll call -them- out too.

That's just the kind of guy I am.

[Edit:]

Again, Lauren_Dr... this isn't targeting you. I just wanted to clarify that.

This is an explanation of why I may -sound- like I'm trying to intimidate people. I'm really not. I'm trying to make damn sure that people (as in the general group of folks who want to know more) can get the most accurate information possible. Not all of -my- information is 100% either.

If someone can prove (or better yet, show) that there are situations where my knowledge does not apply... such as on a terrible computer... then I can say: "Yes, that's right. Steam can have some severe performance issues on low-end machines" so that folks with lower end machines can make an educated decision.

But so many people insist upon making it out to be Steam as a whole, and insist upon DEMONIZING it with inaccurate accounts and information... that people can search these forums for months without seeing anything even -approaching- the truth.

So perhaps your situation is different. That's fine.

But that doesn't make it Steam's fault you have a low end computer. It doesn't make it their fault that you have poor internet. It doesn't make Steam a demon bent on world domination, enslaving us all to the Metal Overlords from Beyond the Veil.

It just means that someone should have TOLD you that there would be problems before hand.

And now, it's even MORE important that you should be sure to spread the most accurate information you can, to help others in your same situation make an educated decision. Steam really -may- not be the best route for everyone. Console versions don't have to deal with it, and you can be guaranteed that it'll run out of the box.

<.< Hell... I'm getting the console version. If I want to play it on the PC, I'll do so after I've had some time to enjoy it in all it's not-chugging and miserably low-quality graphics glory.

Anyhow... I hope this made you feel a little -less- attacked.

If not, there's not much more I can do right now. This pain in my face is making me sound more and more like a lunatic.

-_-;' I need to see a dentist.

Huzzah to that.

WHAT ?
How the f#ck they do that ?
It's against the rules of free market and globalisation.
I mean...
It's against global consumer's rights.
How some big international organisation didn't sued them ?

Now the real world is something that I know a lot about... For that tooth ache the answer is Tijuana... Better dental practices there for an eighth the cost.
The dentist I saw picked you up and dropped you off at the border.

Ah, Tijuana... now if only I could get there from Wisconsin. :dead:


I think I might have better luck trying to become a Canadian citizen. Their health-care thing includes Dental, right?

I could -totally- be a Canadian. I like... ice... and moose... and not understanding French...

Edit: I'm too tired to post coherent thoughts anymore. Bleh.

I think the crux of the entire matter is that Skyrim and games like it have no valid reason to be "Steam" games. They're single player sandbox world games. What possible benefit is there in having a multi-player based gaming community tool in control of a game that doesn't even have internet functions in it?

THAT is at least one reason why I abhore the very idea of Steam.

Also, for you naive people who think that Valve will turn the whole thing off if they're going under, wake up. That's not how bankruptcy proceedings work. The lawyers aren't going to give a rip that you can't log in to play your game anymore - they've shut the servers down because they can't afford to pay for it. The unlock code you all seem to think will magically fix everything will never be deployed because the people who would be there to do that are already fired from the company.

Yes, I'm aware that Valve doesn't seem likely to fold anytime soon, but nobody thought the economy would collapse in 2008 either. It did though. We also had a tech bubble burst back in the 1990s and there's plenty of indications that such a thing may happen again, and when it does, companies that are there today will be gone tomorrow. Literally.

Use the search bar. -.-

I don't care if I have to have internet connection while I'm installing Skyrim in my hard drive,but I would hate it if I have to pass through the process of creating yet another account at a site I will never visit again that will spam my e-mail inbox with promos and I have to have connection every time I want to play the game afterwards.
Oblivion just worked fine for me and I didn't had any drm issues with it.

I'd like to point out that -this- is a legitimate concern as well.

However, I'm going to have to defer to proper business sense on this one. Steam (and Valve, by comparison) are loaded. They're, as previously mentioned, the number one digital-distribution and rights management platform in existence. Their games, which arguable are few and far between, are fairly popular and sell well. The day that Valve goes out of business is, therefore, very likely the entire game industry as a whole goes out of business.

The day that happens, you're probably going to be more worried about the electric company going under... and the water company folding... because the game industry survived the economic failure of 2008 with less damage that the porm Industry, and the porm Industry is supposedly indestructible. My guess is that, if Valve ever goes under, we're all going to have much bigger problems than playing our video games.

Like how we're going to keep fed...

... and how to make the toilets flush without running water.


It's all very "Worst-Case Scenario"...

... so, for the most part, the real important thing to do is "be prepared".

Well keep in mind if you have a poor internet connection (or dial up heaven forbid! ) and the game in question requires updating before play then it can prevent you from playing your games. I wasn't able to play half-life 2 for a couple of years because we only had dial-up at the time. I annoyed me VERY much.

I can understand that, but that wasn't the guys arguements. Fair enough you want exact control over your computer, but I can almost guarantee you have other things on your computer that you don't have complete control over. But if you won't play Steam games, then that's up to you.



So you really never played Oblivion or Morrowind on PC??. And you keep changing your arguement; you said that you didn't like Steam because it was bloatware, and because it accuses you of being a theif, but you're prefectly happy to carry on doing other stuff that assumes your the bad one??

And as for the physical DVD, that's all well and good for you, but sooner or later you're going to have to get with the times or be left behind.

I can understand you don't want to play games on Steam, and I can even respect that you're willing to not buy Skyrim on computer to show how much you feel about this. But it just really gets to me when people come on hear and give a bunch of reasons that don't hold up.

I'm going to state my reasons for not liking Steam (for SKYRIM ONLY mind you) as perhaps it wasn't clear.

A. Inability to change the install path except by NTFS symlink trickery. I don't keep my games all on the same hard drive, and Skyrim is going to an SSD
B. multiplayer functions (chat, achievements, etc) that have no place in a SP sandbox open world game.
C. Forced update while game is installing. If we have an oblivion repeat with the CS that could be disastrous.
D. This one is more of a general Steam problem: you can't put links to Steam games in quick launch in windows 7 because they're treated as URL shortcuts. Minor, yes but still annoying
If I think of anything else I'll edit the post.

A. No answer for that. Perhaps ask Steam if the plan on fixing it?
B. You can disable all that stuff. But I do get your point.
C. That's also a bummer as well. Again, perhaps talking to them or raising a ticket might get that somewhere.
D. I have links to Oblivion in my quick launch toolbar on Windows 7. I'll add another one to double check ;D

EDIT: For D, just go into the folder for the game and drag the actual .exe to the quickbar.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! UNBEARABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead: :brokencomputer:

well i hope it is. i like steam. and i like the idea of ppl paying for there games so i can have more.

this discussion isn't about if there's going to be a steam version, which there will be, it's about if it's going to be steam ONLY. and frankly it's got some people worked up.

I personally <3 steam, but there is no reason why the game would need to be dependant?? Unless they somehow manage to add an arena type multiplayer, then steam would not be needed except for convienence and sales.


Games of 2011, Skyrim and BF3, going to buy both from steam

I hope so. Steam is a far better form of DRM than anything else out there, bar no DRM.

I like being able to buy a boxed game and still have it register on Steam so I'm all for Steamworks games. You never have to worry about finding those DVDs again.

Steam also ensures there is no seconds hand market for games which frankly svcks as the developers don't get royalties. With sales at least the sales still go to the right places, and all of this means games can remain cheaper.

Steam has been the best thing to hit the PC since the mouse.

That said, if they can come up with a way to have Steamworks or insert game disc to play along with some other evil DRM you prefer to invade your PC instead then I'm fine with that.

Not sure if serious...

I think it is. And there's nothing wrong with it, either.

In any case, I think there's compelling arguments on each side for and against Skyrim and Steam.