This.

I think that going mainstream is a good thing for games. Namely:

1. Going mainstream introduces more fans to the series, which is always a good thing. There are few things I like sharing more than Elder Scrolls. More fans = more friends here on the forums. Also could mean more modders.
2. Going mainstream makes additional money for the studio, so the next game (and other games made by them) can be even better in quality and larger in scope.
3. Going mainstream introduces new criticism from people not familiar with the series or the genre that long-time players overlook. Fresh criticism is useful both to developers and fans alike. It is how games improve.


Now tell me, what's bad about mainstream?



This. Going mainstream doesn't mean that the game is becoming more simplistic.

I hate to break it to you folks, but Morrowind was mainstream. That's why most of you are here. The reason Oblivion seems "more simplistic" than Morrowind is because Morrowind did not contain the extensive voice-acting that Oblivion did. Without having to worry about scripts, the cost of employing voice actors, the schedules of the actors, etc, they could include more detail into the dialog of the game. But instead of that extra detail, Oblivion opted to innovate with fully-voiced, fully-lip-synced characters. It was a tremendous achievement for its day, and added so much entertainment value to the series.

Now, I doubt Skyrim will be as detailed as Morrowind because it'll have voice acting. However, thanks to earlier games like Oblivion, voice acting is now the norm and Bethesda has plenty of experience with it (as well as $$$ from Oblivion's great success), so Skyrim will definitely hold more detail than the fourth installment of the series did.

...

this thread /closed.

Morrowind was mainstream, but it wasn't simple like Oblivion.

this is just an absolute stab in the dark... but it could be that they had to make some cuts so it would fit in with the new consoles..... but i don't know lol

History says it appears to be becoming more mainstream, but Oblivion was so simple and dumbed down that I think the outrage was enough for bethesda to open their eyes
Hopefully they say what happened and realized, "Ok, thats too far, time to take a step back."
Bethesda does claim to learn from their own mistakes and listen to the fans, if thats the case then Skyrim shouldn't be an issue.

So it comes down to either history and trend, or hope...

All they need is guns and space marines, and modders can do that if they don't.

Yes, but it was less mainstreamer.

You bring up a good point. As others have said, mainstream is used as a by-word for simplistic.

I think what people hated was:

You can beat the game at level 1. That is just ridiculous. Totally eliminates all pretense of an RPG.

Rare items not only don't exist at lower levels, but at higher levels they become commonplace to the point of boredom. It's like being 20 and not a single store carries beer, then it's your birthday and your kitchen tap is attached to a keg. Is it hard to get booze before 21? Yes. Does it become more available after? Yes, but you still have to drive to the liquor store, pay, etc.

Lowered number of weapons and spells. This should never, never happen. Until you have so many weapons and spells that they are indistinct, or the weapons/armors are only native to one region (I'm not upset that bonemould wasn't in Oblivion, but Imperial Dragonscale, newtscale, studded leather, silver cuirass...etc

Reduced number of factions...same as above. I understand the existing ones were more in-depth, but still, you couldn't join the Imperial Cult OR Legion, in the Imperial Province!?

You had horses that you couldn't fight from. Unless someone died while trying to implement this and they stopped trying out of respect for the widow, this is probably the most unforgivable. I don't care if you had to rethink your whole combat system. This would have been universally popular, even if it wasn't perfect...it's not like the horses handled very well to begin with, and not because it was meant to be that way. Asssassin's Creed, Red Dead, all had it down pat.

No guild requirements. Okay, maybe couple ADHD suffer's would have been angry, but I think most people would have been "Oh, I'm not powerful enough to be arch mage yet? Guess I'll have to explode a few more bandits with fireballs, then."

I'm gonna stop there, but I could go on. Oblivion really wasn't a bad game. And I'm glad it introduced new players to this awesome series. But please, Beth. I was 13 when I fell in love with Morrowind. If another player that age (or older) can't handle a little difficulty, you do not need them as a customer. Maybe you want bigger and bigger sales numbers. But if that's the business you want, you're in the wrong genre, and should start reading how to code FPS or generic MMO's.

Yes, I really hope Skyrim doesnt go main stream, It's just what I want. That way, it wont sell to a large audience, profits will be low and the budget for the next game will be even lower -- thats if the TES series doesn't get cancelled after sub-par sales of the anti-mainstream Skyrim.

Or you know, we could all accept that as a product -- Skyrim needs to be marketed to a large audience for it to make a viable turn over.

on a main, pissed off note: GIVE ME AN OPTION TO MAKE EVERYONE REALIZE THAT FAST TRAVEL WAS COMPLETELY OPTIONAL AND THERE WAS NO NEED TO TURN IT OFF ZOMG!

:shakehead:

EDIT: On topic, while I'm sure everyone hopes for it to go back to the "good ole days", I doubt they will alienate millions of, lets call them "casual TES gamers", to cater to the, oh (checks number of members) 100,000 fans here :shrug:

[quote/ name='Solidor' timestamp='1292741960' post='16837591
Or you know, we could all accept that as a product -- Skyrim needs to be marketed to a large audience for it to make a viable turn over.
[/quote]

Not like Oblivion's existence wasn't wholly dependent on Morrowind's success...
And I mean, if I wanted more money, I could sell my body on the street. But I have dignity. Well. I have a fear of being murdered by anyone who would pay for an hour with a bearded 21 year old man.

on a main, pissed off note: GIVE ME AN OPTION TO MAKE EVERYONE REALIZE THAT FAST TRAVEL WAS COMPLETELY OPTIONAL AND THERE WAS NO NEED TO TURN IT OFF ZOMG!

EXCEPT BY "OPTIONAL" YOU MEAN EITHER TELEPORT, WALK, OR RIDE SLOW HORSES YOU HAVE TO DISMOUNT TO FIGHT. NO CARAVANS/BOATS/TAXIS/FLYING CARPETS OR OTHER CONVEYENCES

TES doesn't need to be simple because it already has such an audience. Bethesda is NOT worried about money like they were when they made Morrowind.
Now that they have the resources to do whatever they want they should do just that, whatever THEY want. And whatever they want is in turn whatever we want because they are ultimately the ones who wanted this type of game before us, they established it and enjoy it like us.
So it shouldn't "have" to be mainstream'd.

No not really. If there is something as convenient as fast travel, I am going to use it. It is not a black and white issue of "well you didn't have to use it you could ignore it if you didn't want it." It has much more to do with temptation and convenience. However, give me an option in the beginning of the game to simply not allow it and I would be happier.

Use self-control? I dunno what to tell you but I managed to not use it when I didn't want to :shrug:

Sorry if this has been said already, but it's 2 in the morning, so I'm not going to read through every response.

While drawing in new players may be part of the reason for the dumbing down, I believe it's more due to the fact that gaming engines are getting more and more advanced, so developers are not able to pack as many different things into a game, and they have to focus on refining what they can fit in instead.

I'd like to elaborate on this, but again, 2 in the morning, and I think you guys get my point anyway.

i know i have read countless forumns where peopleare saying that there should be an off switch for fast travel when the off switch was just not doing it. i dont understand do u guys honestly not understand that fast travel was optional.(when i say you guys i am only talking to people who want fast travel as optional)

Already ? It's been a week, people.


*shrug* Self-control isn't something I use in games - I already have too much trouble with it in RL. So yeah, I prefer to be stuck with a tough situation, and have to work around it - that the game should twist my arm a bit, and force me to improvise. Not asking that this option should be removed for everybody. Just that before you start, you would be given the option to customize a bit : fast-travel on/off, pop-ups on/off, quest compass on/off... And afterward, for this char, you would be stuck with your initial choice. That way everybody's happy, those who want just to relax, and those who want something more immersive.

Probably. Developers want to make money and the best way to do that is to cater to casual players because they're the majority.

That's why sequels are almost always more tard-friendly than the previous game(s).

Oblivion isn't as mainstream as people are making it out to be. Most of my friends hate it because it doesn't have explosions and hot babes. It moves to slow for them, they'd rather play Halo or CoD and have everything scripted.

Oblivion is more an introduction to the series for people who didn't know about TES. I mean it's what made me play Arena, Daggerfall and Morrowind. Without Oblivion I wouldn't have taken a second glance at Morrowind which would have been a huge loss for me.

So thank you Oblivion

Lets hope they aren't taking notes from two worlds or Gothic 4. :facepalm:

I hope not. Oblivion disappointed me greatly.

Well, judging by the teaser trailer, it looks like they are heading towards creating an epic with lots of action.

Crash bang wallop!

I imagine it will be more streamlined into being an action game with the RPG elements toned down even more.

Games are having to become more and more like the movies, with big bangs and fast paced action or the kids just lose interest.

Of course, this doesn't mean they can't still make a good and deep RPG with lots of epic action also, it just means, with all the attention they are obviously putting towards graphics and action, the RPG elements are bound to lose some detail.

I remember the article that got me to buy Morrowind after I first got into PC gaming; the part that stood out was when the reviewer described diving into pools to find pearls and collecting mushrooms from a monster infested swamp to create potions. These days however, people want to hear that it has a big dragon to slay or an epic battle or some other generic Fantasy Action game scenario.

I feel it will be an action game first and an RPG second.

Yes, based on the trailer we can be totally sure that this game is going to be more mainstream. :rolleyes:

OK, if Bethesda really did start the production for TESV when they said they did (4 ish years ago. plus the time you have to add till the release date--about 5 years of production by that date) then I feel like it is pretty much guaranteed this game will not be more simplistic than the oblivion. It just seems like way too much time to not to make a freeggin awesome game!! :wave:

No one knows for certain, but we can atleast assume.

I assume it will be more action orientated because the trailer has a sense of urgency in the voice over, the music is very powerful and the imagery of men fighting and a dragon breathing fire; it all gives me the sense of an epic action adventure with fighting and violence as the main hook.


Yeah hopefuly this means they've done a lot of work on it, however this is not always how development works; we have no idea how much of that time was spent finalising and dealing with this new engine of theirs and also it doesn't tell us how many people are working on the game at any one time. It's quite possible that in those years of development, they moved a lot of man power over to dealing with FO3 and its DLC and New Vegas; the game Skyrim might even have been put on hold for any amount of time during development, there is just no way of knowing.

Yes.

And that's not a bad thing.

Because, from recent developments in the games industry (mind you: there's still a lot of "hurr meynshtreem" crap out there), I'm getting the feeling that developers are finally beginning to grasp the concept again that an approachable game and a game with deep gameplay mechanics are not mutually exclusive. So yes, Skyrim will probably go more mainstream, but I don't think that's inherently bad.

It's probably because the graphics improved incredibly much? Ofcourse engines improve and such, but if you want to have a better looking game, you'll have to cut some things away to make space. And I'm also really opposed to the term 'mainstream'. With this I assume you mean people who don't know anything about RPG's and only play less than 8 hours a day? Well sorry pal, but I love RPG's and I find Oblivion a lot better than Morrowind. The biggest factor of you guy's who keep whining: "It must be more like Morrowind! Make a new Morrowind!" is probably nostalgia.