[Monique Cameron]

ok so i revised the poll after everything i learned from your responses. this thread is for anything left unsaid. i know i still want to talk about it because of my fear of the casual rpg or fps gamer becoming the new audience for bethesda because that audience is the most profitable and is larger. you can't blame them if they do make the game even more mainstream (dumbed down, simplistic, (towards majority audience). i can revise the poll some more if need be. please if u voted for it in thread one vote for it here so we can get a more accurate reading. any tips on revision of the poll is accepted. will Skyrim be a more mainstream game than we hope or no?

Argument for it is..Yes it will be because bethesda will do what ever makes them more profitable. whether we like it or not our likes compared to the average gamer likes are alot different because we are more passionate about the series than they are. The casual gamer is also the majority that bethesda could try to sell to to maximise profits. also many people were brought to the series from OB which was a mainstream TES game and going even more mainstream could maximize the fan base. We have also lost many things throughout the games like a bank spells boats and strongholds. There are many other arguments please post them.

Argument that it isnt. Bethesda is not broke like they were when they made morrowind, they can afford to make it a classic TES game (the kind that they want it to be. The space between OB and skyrim will be the longest gap between TES games. 5 years and 11 months to be exact (someone might want to check that). Since OB was such a success they can go back to the morrowind style of TES and build a more complex and in depth game because one they have the fan base and money to support it and 2 its what everyone on the forumn apparently wants.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1150784-is-skyrim-going-main-stream/page__st__160__p__16842119__fromsearch__1#entry16842119

[Megan Stabler]

Not that it would necessarily be my vote, but... shouldn't there be an opposite "Yes even more than Oblivion (and its necessarily bad)" option?

**I would vote "too early to tell", were that available, though I do assume it will simply be the best of Oblivion with parts of the FO3 tech folded in.

[Alyce Argabright]

needs a more than oblivion ( very bad! ) option

[john page]

needs a more than oblivion ( very bad! ) option

thnx fixin it now

[rae.x]

are my arguments an accurate summary or no does anyone disagree

[Megan Stabler]

The Elder Scrolls series was mainstream the second they put it in 1st person mode..... wait.

Only reason I tried Oblivion was either because of playing FO3 or waiting for FO3 and the GotY edition was under $20. First person RPG's never were my thing because the perspective, in my opinion, needs a good action based combat system to make it entertaining. Oblivion wasn't bad, in fact it has a lot of great and innovative ways of doing side quests. It just had such weak dialogue compared to the RPG's I had grown up with. Some people say you need EVERY NPC to be fully voiced... but it really kills the immersion once you realize there are 1-2 voices for every race. "Patrolling Skyrim makes me wish for a (insert TES appropriate tropical/desert climate zone) winter!" I think they should make some guard say that in TES5.... that would crack me up.

[Hazel Sian ogden]

not as much as oblivion but still mainstream

How is this option winning when each TES is more mainstream/popular than the next? People really like to disregard facts and common sense lol.

[dav]

How is this option winning when each TES is more mainstream/popular than the next? People really like to disregard facts and common sense lol.

i know thats what i am saying but if you look up the first of my skyrim going to main stream thread alot of people were saying that. the thread got to full so i had to make a new one the moderator said it got to long. if you don't understand why just read some of that. this is the new modified post to have everyones views on it so then we can see the true popular opinion

[Love iz not]

How is this option winning when each TES is more mainstream/popular than the next? People really like to disregard facts and common sense lol.

It depends on your definition of "Main Stream". My definition is a complete opposite of your defintion.

[SEXY QUEEN]

I hope it's not gonna be as bad as oblivion.

Thankfully, the modders will be able to get rid of whatever silly features they implement, and add all the interesting stuff that would've confused peanut brain casual gamers.

[amhain]

My hope is that they're able to come up with mechanisms that will allow folks with a variety of tastes to enjoy Skyrim. I don't want it to be a niche game. I want it to be a commercial success so that they will continue to invest substantial resources in the IP. So long as it can be enjoyed by an RPer with slowing reflexes and not-the-best vision, I'm happy for them also to cater to more action-oriented players.

[Vickey Martinez]

My hope is that they're able to come up with mechanisms that will allow folks with a variety of tastes to enjoy Skyrim. I don't want it to be a niche game. I want it to be a commercial success so that they will continue to invest substantial resources in the IP. So long as it can be enjoyed by an RPer with slowing reflexes and not-the-best vision, I'm happy for them also to cater to more action-oriented players.

And Bingo was his name-o.

I am one of those MW fans everyone is either talking about or acting like, but I can also appreciate the aspects of a game that make it more enjoyable for everyone.
If you must have a Quest Compass, make it toggle able and give us written (spoken) directions as well. The big reason they said they needed this was to keep a tab on moving NPCs. I think the solution would be to be able to ask "have you seen ____?" If they are unable to actually have NPCs record a "memory bank" of who they saw, certainly they can give them a real-time update of a characters location (if they had reason to know that info, ie, were in proximity, are part of the quest)

[c.o.s.m.o]

It already is mainstream. But I hope they don't "dumb it down".

[evelina c]

My hope is that they're able to come up with mechanisms that will allow folks with a variety of tastes to enjoy Skyrim. I don't want it to be a niche game. I want it to be a commercial success so that they will continue to invest substantial resources in the IP. So long as it can be enjoyed by an RPer with slowing reflexes and not-the-best vision, I'm happy for them also to cater to more action-oriented players.

Yes, I think they should be able to satisfy both groups, if they really want to. Just give us options to toggle on or off certain features.

Perhaps they could even allow the player to choose between an "Action Mode" and "RPG Mode" that would automatically configure all the settings one way or another. Action Mode could disable all the RPG features, setting it so the PC either auto-levels or just disable leveling entirely. Just set all the PC's skills to 100 and let them go out, pick up any random weapon and start bashing things without having to think about character build or stats. Then they could make RPG mode as complex as they wanted, and no one would feel alienated.

[Kayla Bee]

ok so i revised the poll after everything i learned from your responses. this thread is for anything left unsaid. i know i still want to talk about it because of my fear of the casual rpg or fps gamer becoming the new audience for bethesda because that audience is the most profitable and is larger. you can't blame them if they do make the game even more mainstream (dumbed down, simplistic, (towards majority audience). i can revise the poll some more if need be. please if u voted for it in thread one vote for it here so we can get a more accurate reading. any tips on revision of the poll is accepted. will Skyrim be a more mainstream game than we hope or no?

Argument for it is..Yes it will be because bethesda will do what ever makes them more profitable. whether we like it or not our likes compared to the average gamer likes are alot different because we are more passionate about the series than they are. The casual gamer is also the majority that bethesda could try to sell to to maximise profits. also many people were brought to the series from OB which was a mainstream TES game and going even more mainstream could maximize the fan base. We have also lost many things throughout the games like a bank spells boats and strongholds. There are many other arguments please post them.

Argument that it isnt. Bethesda is not broke like they were when they made morrowind, they can afford to make it a classic TES game (the kind that they want it to be. The space between OB and skyrim will be the longest gap between TES games. 5 years and 11 months to be exact (someone might want to check that). Since OB was such a success they can go back to the morrowind style of TES and build a more complex and in depth game because one they have the fan base and money to support it and 2 its what everyone on the forumn apparently wants.

Daggerfall to Morrowind was 1996 to 2002.

In many ways Daggerfall was more complex than Morrowind. I'm pretty sure I remember complaints about how Morrowind didn't live up to the promise of Daggerfall. For pc users, mods and the script extender have corrected many of the 'faults' in Morrowind or Oblivion. The poor console users have been pretty well stuck with what Bethesda gave them, but the rest of us started changing what we didn't like as soon as the games came out.

[Natalie J Webster]

If I may, I kind of want to add in that I think a lot of people have no idea what dumbing down really is.

I wouldn't say that Oblivion was made more stupid than Morrowind, I would say however that perhaps when they developed Oblivion they went into it with intention of making it easier to play for everyone, as opposed to having a bunch of complicated junk in it that no one understands without reading the manual for an hour. Sure it wasn't perfect, but if they didn't change anything from Morrowind to Oblivion and just kept the same menus, maps, weapons, powers, and other stuff I'd accuse Bethesda of being outright lazy, thinking they can make a game over and over with the exact same stuff in it, like oh say Square Enix.

I feel like a lot of people need to stop requesting "Morrowind Part 2" and start requesting "Skyrim".

Bethesda is developing, and counting feedback from Oblivion, I think we should be a little more trusting that they'll create a decent game. They're most likely trying to get some medium area where they still have a deep system but at the same time it's approachable for people who have never played the game before.

Bethesda has to do that, every developer has to do that, if they didn't they wouldn't make any money.

[Tracey Duncan]

If I may, I kind of want to add in that I think a lot of people have no idea what dumbing down really is.

I wouldn't say that Oblivion was made more stupid than Morrowind, I would say however that perhaps when they developed Oblivion they went into it with intention of making it easier to play for everyone, as opposed to having a bunch of complicated junk in it that no one understands without reading the manual for an hour. Sure it wasn't perfect, but if they didn't change anything from Morrowind to Oblivion and just kept the same menus, maps, weapons, powers, and other stuff I'd accuse Bethesda of being outright lazy, thinking they can make a game over and over with the exact same stuff in it, like oh say Square Enix.

I feel like a lot of people need to stop requesting "Morrowind Part 2" and start requesting "Skyrim".

Bethesda is developing, and counting feedback from Oblivion, I think we should be a little more trusting that they'll create a decent game. They're most likely trying to get some medium area where they still have a deep system but at the same time it's approachable for people who have never played the game before. I mean I share the concerns of some people, I hope that the game isn't made so approachable that it's a shell of its former self, but I'm really not that worried about it. Along with getting new players into the Elder Scrolls, I'm sure Bethesda wants to keep their core fan base as well.

Bethesda has to do that, every developer has to do that, if they didn't they wouldn't make any money.

[Mélida Brunet]

I think people need to chill. It's going to be an awesome game.

[Ashley Clifft]

I wouldn't say that Oblivion was made more stupid than Morrowind, I would say however that perhaps when they developed Oblivion they went into it with intention of making it easier to play for everyone, as opposed to having a bunch of complicated junk in it that no one understands without reading the manual for an hour.

Are you saying that you want a game simple enough that it needs no instructions? What is wrong with reading the manual for an hour(?) ~especially if its a good manual?
Games with useless manuals (or no manual) have to be as simple as arcade games, and be close enough to the other games that they are familiar to the complete novice. I don't mind this last bit in a numbered series game (its expected), but as a general rule, it severely limits what you can get in a new game.

Sure it wasn't perfect, but if they didn't change anything from Morrowind to Oblivion and just kept the same menus, maps, weapons, powers, and other stuff I'd accuse Bethesda of being outright lazy, thinking they can make a game over and over with the exact same stuff in it, like oh say Square Enix.

Why would you (or anyone) do that!? A series game is a chance to bring a new chapter into the series, and perhaps tinker and add just a bit of a twist (to improve the already good game ~we know its good, because the previous games were good enough to seek out the next one; and profitable enough to commit to making the next one).

I feel like a lot of people need to stop requesting "Morrowind Part 2" and start requesting "Skyrim".

People WANT Morrowind part 2 (set in Skyrim this time). :shrug:
*Why call it an Elder Scrolls game at all, if its to be that different? Why would anyone want something utterly original from a numbered series game?
(Meaning why make it a series installment, instead of a stand alone new game?)

**Now there are two camps on this issue: (and there is a parallel here with Warhammer)
On the one hand their are the many Warhammer games (unique, but all set in the Warhammer IP), on the other hand, there are the numbered sequels to each game (that have them) so you have Dawn of War, DoW2 etc...

Does Bethesda (or do the majority of TES fans), consider each TES game to be a one-off original, or sequel to the previous in the series? (this is something I do not know; I have several TES games, but I'm not in the culture).
If its a sequel, then I don't understand calling out "lazy" for reusing the Rules and UI. **But then... why anyone would call software development lazy is beyond me. As is demanding them start from scratch and base principles for every sequel in an established series; [IMO] 'accusing' them at all (of anything save perhaps bad customer support), is not anyone's place if one doesn't work there; and without that, its impossible to do with an informed opinion anyway.
If its a new game set in the the same TES IP, but unrelated to any previous game ~then I don't understand calling it TES5. :shrug:; but even radical changes to the Rules and UI are easily accepted.

Myself I would hope for a linear evolution from Arena to Skyrim (that's not how it is though). If it is instead, just separate games all set in the same lands, I can accept that ~but I never realized it before. Not being Fallout, it doesn't really matter [to me] that much, but does begin to explain a lot that previously didn't make sense.

[Miragel Ginza]

It already is mainstream. But I hope they don't "dumb it down".

Add "...even more than they've consistently done with the series since Daggerfall," and I'm with you.

Of course the process having been consistent since Daggerfall tends to have me expecting more of the same. When in doubt, predict that the prevailing trend will continue.

[lillian luna]

How is TES not mainstream already? Oblivion and Morrowind are two of the best games to come out this decade. Sure its not COD multiplayer mainstream, but i still say its a pretty mainstream game. Even more so now, I am sure with the release of Fallout, that got even more people interested in Oblivion. It was the other way around for me, I had friends telling me about Oblivion for over a year before i finally got a 360 and played it myself. Skyrim, will appeal to people that have played Oblivion mostly, unless this is another groundbreaking engine/graphics kinda thing. Then it will pull even more people in.

[Kortniie Dumont]

"Even more than Oblivion (in a bad way)" was my vote. Expecting the worst and hoping for the best, so I can just shrug it off if turns out to be a mere polished turd.

[Ross Thomas]

"Even more than Oblivion (in a bad way)" was my vote. Expecting the worst and hoping for the best, so I can just shrug it off if turns out to be a mere polished turd.

Aye, same here. Both vote and viewpoint.

[Jenna Fields]

but some of you are still missing the point. OB was mainstream that is obvious, one because it made a ridiculous amount of money, and 2 because it dumbed down and simplified alot of the features that were in Daggerfall and Morrowind.
The concern is if Bethesda will do that even more this time with Skyrim to attract even more casual gamers but in turn losing us. the hardcoe fans who are freaking out about it ten days after its announced and are going back to play previous TES games to fulfill our hunger.
Also i do not want morrowind 2.0 so don't say that because skyrim will be its own game in its own right and there was some things about morrowind that i just hated beyond belief

[Cash n Class]

Are you saying that you want a game simple enough that it needs no instructions? What is wrong with reading the manual for an hour(?) ~especially if its a good manual?
Games with useless manuals (or no manual) have to be as simple as arcade games, and be close enough to the other games that they are familiar to the complete novice. I don't mind this last bit in a numbered series game (its expected), but as a general rule, it severely limits what you can get in a new game.

Why would you (or anyone) do that!? A series game is a chance to bring a new chapter into the series, and perhaps tinker and add just a bit of a twist (to improve the already good game ~we know its good, because the previous games were good enough to seek out the next one; and profitable enough to commit to making the next one).

People WANT Morrowind part 2 (set in Skyrim this time). :shrug:
*Why call it an Elder Scrolls game at all, if its to be that different? Why would anyone want something utterly original from a numbered series game?
(Meaning why make it a series installment, instead of a stand alone new game?)

**Now there are two camps on this issue: (and there is a parallel here with Warhammer)
On the one hand their are the many Warhammer games (unique, but all set in the Warhammer IP), on the other hand, there are the numbered sequels to each game (that have them) so you have Dawn of War, DoW2 etc...

Does Bethesda (or do the majority of TES fans), consider each TES game to be a one-off original, or sequel to the previous in the series? (this is something I do not know; I have several TES games, but I'm not in the culture).
If its a sequel, then I don't understand calling out "lazy" for reusing the Rules and UI. **But then... why anyone would call software development lazy is beyond me. As is demanding them start from scratch and base principles for every sequel in an established series; [IMO] 'accusing' them at all (of anything save perhaps bad customer support), is not anyone's place if one doesn't work there; and without that, its impossible to do with an informed opinion anyway.
If its a new game set in the the same TES IP, but unrelated to any previous game ~then I don't understand calling it TES5. :shrug:; but even radical changes to the Rules and UI are easily accepted.

Myself I would hope for a linear evolution from Arena to Skyrim (that's not how it is though). If it is instead, just separate games all set in the same lands, I can accept that ~but I never realized it before. Not being Fallout, it doesn't really matter [to me] that much, but does begin to explain a lot that previously didn't make sense.

My point is, is that Bethesda is trying to make the game more approachable while also trying to make it a game that seasoned Elder Scrolls fans want. If they didn't try changing anything all they would be doing is changing the map and characters. But in itself approachable doesn't really mean it's going to turn into bejeweled. They probably want to put in a lot of stuff they've had in the past, their main goal however is to make it less complicated and for it all to come together better, that's generally what you do when you improve things.

However it seems with so many people here less complicated = oh no casual game!

When that is not what I'm implying at all.