I think Bethesda knows how to make a great game... I trust that their gameplay design decisions will make Skyrim a better experience in the long run.

The perk system will easily make Skyrim the best game in the TES series as far as skills and weapon options go... if they do it right.

If each weapon and skill (in general) has 5-10 or so perks associated with it, then that pretty much allows for a lot of flexibility depending on the weapons YOU want to use, not the skills. The simplification of all combat skills being consoldated into One-Handed and Two Handed sounds bad at first, but when coupled with perks for every weapon, it theoretically allows for an unlimited amount of weapon types that all have equal amounts of depth and are all unique in how they work from a skill/character standpoint. All without having 20 different weapon skills, just a base "damage modifier" skill for "quicker" weapons and "stronger" (two-handed) weapons. Brilliant.

Of course if all the perks are pretty simple or dumb, or there simply isn't really much of a selection to choose from (like only 1-2 perks per weapon or skill) then this method would be pretty shallow and a step back.

Good thing though is that due to the nature of the system I imagine it is very easy to mod in more perks if there's a lack of them.

Starting to sound like Fallout with swords. Next thing we'll here about a VATS like system for archery and ranged spell casting.

Thats what I was thinking, plus adding weapons naturally into the game will be much easier, instead of creating a new skill just make up some perks, good stuff.

yeah, they difinitly know how to make a great game, but lately they've been sacraficing alot of qualities that makes a great game to save time and appease the gamers who just want to rush a game and don't care if there is any improvement other than graphics and main quest. OB was good, not great because (other than graphics and hot keys) it made no improvements that would have made the game good.


know what you mean, perks were good for fall out. not so sure about TES. we'll just have to see, but it does seem like gamesas is porting concepts from other games instead of improving upon the qualities of TES series.

There will be a vast difference from Oblivion to Skyrim. About a 5 year difference!

Except combat, spell casting, physics, archery, AI, NPC schedules, inter-NPC interactions...

I completely agree with you on all your points. Skyrim is getting more than both Morrowind and Oblivion. What alot of people don't realize is that from Morrowind to Oblivion they "lost" 6 skills when in reality, they lose one skill, spears. The things that were removed from Morrowind to Oblivion were removed because they were abusable. Spears had problems that they didn't have time to fix in Oblivion so they removed. Same goes for the armor system and levitation. They were really pressed for time with Oblivion due to trying to make the game for a system that hadn't been made yet. People just overreact when they see a number of things "removed" when in reality they lose nothing because that skill is put somewhere is in the game.



This and also deeper sidequests.

The saying "It was in that game so it should never be in this one!" is [censored] to say the least. Fallout is not Fallout because of Perks but because of many other things + Perks.
Is Neverwinter Night also Fallout because it has Perks (they call them Feats there but it is the same thing)? The same is with TES: addition of perks doesn't make it neither Fallout nor unTES... especially since TES games are NEVER similar to one another.

And Perks can fit TES. Hell, it is the best way of merging and removing skills without losing any gameplay elements... hell, it may actually improve them.

Interesting, because all I have seen is the games getting better since Morrowind. Yep, they have been "sacrificing" a lot of qualities that makes a great game to save time, that's why the series has far more fans than it ever had before Oblivion, yep.... I keep hearing people like you say how the game is losing qualities that makes it an RPG or a great game and I don't see anything being sacrificed lol. I see everything that has always been integral to the TES series and even more.



Perks were in Daggerfall and Oblivion first, just in a different incarnation. Fallout was just a testing ground to improve the perks even more. So if anything Fallout is just TES with guns....

I completely agree. Also we don't need athletics which levels you and you can boost easily. Aswell you could combine loads of skill aswell and make one of it... Like the did.

whether or not combat was an improvement, let alone major, is based on opinion. the only difference is that when you attack you hit every time. you might miss alot in morrowind, (if you were stupid and picked spears as your main wp skill and tried to fight enemies with a dagger, but if you used the weapons that you had the skill for you would miss not that often)

Spell casting hasn't changed, except for maybe the effectiveness factor depending on armor, but thats hardly counts as an improvement.

Physics, yeah I forgot that, still. the existence of gravity doesn't justify having almost half as much weapons and armor

archer? what about it, it has changed, other than only getting to use bows. the absence of the many other marksman weapons was very so missed by any one who used marksman skill (so the quality actually degraded from that of morrowind)

AI and NPC schedule are the same, all that changed was that AI moved more smoothly, it still uses most of the same methods for conversation and how they wandered. (the improvements to NPC's was merely what they improved with graphics)

Inter npc interactions? have no clue what your talking about.

Rember: change is a good thing.

i agree.but i believe Skyrim will better than Morrowind and Oblivion

are there any negative people out there at all

I agree with you Kefka.

I think the biggest problem, other than the fact that some people have a hard time letting go of great experiences they once had(which is understandable, but hindering to progress), is that we pick apart these small pieces of information we do get and anolyze them to death without truthfully seeing these gameplay elements as a part of the bigger picture. We can't accurately understand the full effects of the changes they're implementing, without seeing them in the proper context(which is basically the finished product as a whole). But I personally believe that the trimming they're doing is for the best. I don't think it will take away our freedom or limit our options in the game, but rather, I think it will enrich the experience to be had(while some freedoms that were present in older games are removed, new freedoms are implemented and instituted to keep the game experience fresh and evolving, while still revolving around the lore that so many love). The elimination of "superfluous skills"--Todd, will only go to strengthen and increase the value and importance of other skills/attributes/weapons/spells/potions/inherent race advantages/enchantments/ perks/shouts/etc. that share similarities with that which is being taken away. Forcing you to find greater uses for elements that existed in previous games but which were shadowed by more exploitable or powerful gameplay elements. This in turn generates greater variety in gameplay and creativity on the part of the individual player.

Now although my statement applies mostly to combat and questing gameplay, combine this with the things Kefka mentions and the game promises to be great. Not a copy, not an upgrade, not morrowind 2.0(as many would like) or oblivion 1.5 but a game that can stand on its own, and stay true to the franchise while still pushing it ahead.

Will we, all of us, be disappointed with some aspect(s) of the game when it comes out--of course--me too--but will I, like many of you, still think its an amazing game when it finally arrives, capable of providing me with hours days weeks months of enjoyment--Certainly!

for the first part it really amounts to what each individual likes, so I can't say you are wrong. But what made TES different was the fact it was so broad in how you can interact with the world of the game, at least it did in oblivion. what I am hoping will be different about Skyrim is that by adding things like mining a smithing it will give people more game play.
other wise, how i feel is that gamesas sacrafices alot to apease people who are only interested playing the main quest and maxing out level, then going to this forum and complaining that there is nothing more to do, then flame any suggests that they role play.

the second part... Fallout was not a testing ground, it already existed and gamesas didn't own it. FO1 and 2 had perks too, gamesas didn't do anything to perks that hadn't been done previously in the other FO games. Oblivions perks and what we will get now is very different, in oblivion you earned your perks by getting your skill higher, the higher the better the perk. I don't know exactly how perks will work in skyrim (obviously) but I hope it isn't just the FO system cut and pasted into TES.

I don't get what you are saying, but I didn't say perks should not be in TES, they already were any ways. the difference as it seems to be told is that you will be picking your perks instead of earning them.
yeah, several other rpgs have perks too. Diablo for example, they called it feats too. I don't think any thing I said calls for expeltives. I merely subscribe to the belief that there are areas of the series that could stand more improvement. which it seems to be happening; magic and (unoffficial skills?) by which I refer to the mining and smithing which won't be skills.

I certainly hope Kefka if right. I am sort of looking forward to seeing how the new skills plus perks works out. It seems to me that if it is done right it could make characters more customizable by allowing us to choose the exact perks that best fit the theme of the character that we are playing. I also want to see how the level cap works out. The only concern that I have is with the Spells in the game. The GameInformer information keeps on citing 85 spells, and I hope they mean spell effects. I want to be able to tune the spells to my present character. My biggest worry is that because some people found ways to abuse the system (there is always the option of simply not doing it) options that I enjoy will be removed or otherwise spoiled. I can't count how many times it has happened over the years. I have some hope though, as it appears a number of changes have been made to hide some of the statistics, that should make it harder to abuse the system, hopefully without spoiling the game itself

Yes, it was a testing ground. The perks system was a blend of the original fallout games perk system and those that appeared in previous TES games. The combination of the two truly made a perfect perks system.

The real issue with Skyrim?

Some people see the glass as half full. Some see it as half empty. At this point, with what little information we really know, it's all a matter of perception. No one has played the game, no one really knows if it is going to be great.

I'm pretty sure it's going to be a great game, but I don't know that for a fact. Time will tell.

Haven't read the article since they don't sell that particular magazine here, so I'll have to wait for the local magazine for some more information. However, comparing it to Oblivion is pointless, Oblivion was already so much cut off of the good stuff it ruined the whole game for me.

So I sure as hell hope they will add much more content to the game than they have in Oblivion. I'm happy for information I already heard about, that they have much more dungeon designers, much more voice actors, and now that that they largely improved perk systems, it needed it.

I'm still really eager to see what happens with marksman and spear if they brought it back.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, BLASPHEMY

? could you name something specific, FO3 perk system was just the same as FO1 and 2. just new perks.

Remember when Fallout 3 was released? People were saying it was just gonna be Oblivion with guns. Little did we know that it was just a testing ground to make Skyrim a viking fallout. I don't think that perks to this extent belong in TES to be honest and once it is released I think a good number of people will finaly agree with me.