I have an idea for Karma.

I don't think it should work like law enforcement or even reputation. I think that it should work like karma in the spiritual sense of how karma works. I think that Karma should effect Luck +/-30pts. If you steal a lot and kill indiscriminantly then your 80 Luck stat works more like a 60 or a 50 and if your good and goodness can be things like giving beggars a coin and following the rules of the guilds you are in or doing a pilgrimage, etc then that could turn that 80 Luck into a 110 in practice even though you may not see it in the stat.

No Karma. Just different views. The Nords hate Akatosh (I guess so), since he destroys worlds. The Imperials love him, because he's the god of time, and protects Nirn.

What happens with Karma if I do something for him? I wanna see more scenarios like this, where there is no blatant good or bad choice.

No, I wanna see, at the least, a faction reputation system. If I destroy a Daedric Shrine, the Daedra worshippers would lose rep, while the members of the Imperial Cult would gain rep.

I also don't want to see the "Infamy" statistic. Fame should simply show how well I am known, be it in a good way, or a bad way. I liked New Vegas' way of handling these things. I would be liked/hated by different groups, and have a seperate fame level for each. Worked great.

Here's a good view:
(The "Colour wheel" system is great)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_KU3lUx3u0





Oh, and as said above, I should need to be witnessed. Who knows if I've stolen from ?

To me, the karma system is simply the reputation system with the needed bells and whistles which give good,evil and neutral their perks. Frankly, i'm quite shocked that most people don't wish to see a better reputation system modeled after the karma system.

The Karma system is shallow. Not everything I do is good/evil.

I hated karma in Fallout 3. You could be a shining beacon of niceness and then steal a few Stimpaks and you become the devil incarnate.

I prefer the system in The Elder Scrolls.

No as that was one of the best things about Oblivion, not having to worry over some stupid karma system that works much better in the Fallout world.

But you have to agree that its a definite improvement in comparison to Oblivion's reputation system which aside from the Knight's of the Nine quests and minor disposition effects.

The fact that bad people will come after you, and good people will shower you in gifts -- the idea that some people will join your cause, while others don't believe you're evil/good enough.

Theres a lot more depth.

(Also a note that i'm an elderscrolls player before i'm a fallout player, so i'm not trying to be bias)

No, unless they stray from the Good/Evil system. That ones's much too outdated - no, wait, I don't think it was ever in date.

Seriously, the only game it worked in was Fable, and there it was used for comedic effect.

And we already have all that we need - if your bounty is high, people are scared of you. if you're in Redoran, Telvanni hate you. Etcetera.

ok i am kind of confused on the fame and infamy in oblivion. I played multiple characters where i did the dark brotherhood guild first instead of the fighters and mages and my infamy was very high but nowone treated me any different. Even random strangers would just say like hey did u know there is a thieves guild or hey you are the arena grand champion right or something. When i did it vice versa and i did the mages and fighters guild first and had almost no infamy i was treated the exact same. what did that system actually do?

A resounding, 'hell no.'

Other than when interacting with daedric princes, I don't think karma should affect any part of gameplay.

Daggerfall had a reputation system among classes of people as well as having a reputation with specific groups, and most things you did made you gain or lose reputation with various groups.

For the general classes of people, the reputations were:

Merchants
Nobles
Peasants
Underworld
Scholars

And to that list I would add Clergy and Soldiers. Each of those groups would have a general view of you, then each guild or group has another rating based on what you've done for or against them. Doing a job for known necromancers would make you lose reputation from the clergy, but probably not the merchants or scholars.

No. There shouldn't be a psychic morality system imposed on the player. By necessity, such a system cannot take into account all the role playing possibilities and rationalizations for actions, and thus arbitrarily designates some actions as "bad" and some as "good."

I'd rather have player actions and choices affect the individual NPCs' and NPC Factions' disposition toward the player.

To make this even better, there should be local merchant factions, as opposed to one, single, omniscient merchant faction or peasant faction, etc.

Reputation yes. Karma no. Keep your Fallout out of my Elder Scrolls, please.

can someone explain to me how infamy or fame affected you in oblivion cuz i have no idea what it did

Hell no..

One thing I hated about FO3 and FNV was karma. I wanted to be neutral, but there were no neutral options in the quests! The bad endings were just too evil, and the good endings were well..too good.

I want ME to decide if I am good or bad, not some crazy system.

No, please don't! I'd like to think for myself if the choice I've made is a bad or a good one.

Most of all, I would like Reputation.
But I hope they revamp Infamy/Fame system and make it actually fun and interesting.

yes.. as long as it's closer to ME2 than FO3. the latter really did not do anything, rather than keeping track of how evil your character is...

A good fame/reputation system would be really nice, I think Karma works for Fall Out but isn't meant for the Elder Scrolls. IT could work, but it would half to be greatly sublimated by a fame/reputation system.

Isn't the current fame, faction reputation, and disposition system already more advanced than Fallout karma? :shrug:

i really dont undertsand what fame did in OB

The fame and infamy system was kinda like a reputation system and karma system built into one

I like how we keep rehashing ideas that have been implemented before (whether as extensively as game x or y is a different story but essentially they have been implemented before)

Fame looks as though it was your reputation as a "good guy."

You ask me, fame, infamy, and reputation need to be all in there. Fame and infamy to show if you were a dike or not (ex. FG quest to shake down people increases rep in the FG and CT, decreases with merchants, and increases infamy, but the same FG quests in which you pay off the debts yourself increases rep with FG, merchants, and raises fame), and reputation for how well you are liked between factions and people.

No!!! This is NOT Fallout!!! This is what we classic TES players mean...we DON'T want Fallout systems put into our beloved TES.