I looked all over the forumns and couldn't find a topic on this so i started my own. I think implementing a karma system closer to Mass Effect 2 would be cool. There are other games with Karma systems such as Fable where it effects your physical features and the quests you get or like Fallout's Karma system. Implementing a karma system can make a more dynamic game which can be played multiple times but in some cases it isn't needed, what do you guys think?

It would be good. Just having fame and Infamy was bland. Every murder, trespass etc should result in bad karma. Giving gold to beggars or joining the fighters guild will improve your good karma. Special spells and items granted by the chapel or Deadric shrines depending on your karma.

I would like if we had city or faction based karma. not everyone will know everything you've done, news travels slow.

Reputation - yes. (Reputation should be different from faction to faction, you might have a good reputation among some people, and a bad reputation among others)

Karma - no. (I don't want karma. I like to decide for myself what's good or bad, not have the game do it for me. Karma was one of the things I did not like with Fallout 3 and New Vegas.)

Karma was also part of FO1 and 2

But on topic, before OB, TES used reputation, and it was good. It just needs to be expanded upon.

No. Just no. I want the game to be as moraly ambigious as possible.

A faction reputation system on the other hand would be sweet.

No, the fame-infamy system was really good. Or the approval system in Dragon Age. But I don't like a pure Karma system.

Okay. Then I see the point in having that in the later games. Still, it's a feature I don't like.

no, i fame and infamy made sense, karma would just be an annoyance

A big No to karma. Reputation and such, of course! Karma was fine for me in Fallout but it really doesn't fit The Elder Scrolls at all.

I hope they choose a reputation direction similar to FO:NV but expand on it. So your actions will be good for your reputation with some but bad for your reputation with others. That makes you think before you do quests or perform actions that could harm your standing with a faction or guild. Morrowind had a bit of this, where you'd often had to do quests for guilds that could harm your standing with others. In addition, in Morrowind, members of opposing factions would dislike you. Even though Morrowind's disposition system was rather broken - as was Oblivion's - the concept behind it was good.

It's better if there isn't exactly "good" and "Evil", but...

let's say...

3-4 axes...

1. whether they personally enjoy your company.
2. Respect vs. Contempt. Now so much WHAT you do as how you do it. Bravery and skill earn respect, betrayals and double dealing earn contempt. As a generalization.
3. ally or enemy. Do you act in this NPC's interests?

you can add a few more ideas, but the general idea is that it's possible to loath an ally and respect your enemy. Likewise, it's very possible to like someone on a personal level without being a friend to them.

I'll pass. Karma in fallout was annoying. I don't mind a reputation system that lowers if you get caught in the act, or increase if you do good. But hell no do I want to see the fallout system where if I steal something I automatically lose karma even if no one saw me.

Karma?

No. At least not in a simplistic good/bad way as it was in Mass Effect. There is nu such thing as good/bad, it's always dependent on the eye of the beholder, and also sometimes you have to do lesser evil for the greater good. A good/bad karma system simply can't handle the huge gray area between good and bad. Besides that: I'd prefer it if a game doesn't decide for me what's good or bad. I want the game to be morally ambiguous.

A factional reputation, fame, infamy system: yes. We have that, so please expand on that.

No. I hated the karma system in FO3 and NV.

Karma, in Fallout 2, was the effect of your actions on the people around you. It did not judge your intent. F3, on the other hand, judges your intent. If you give someone water, you must be good. This is stupid, because Karma has nothing to do with judgment.

Karma was not in Fallout, Reputation was in Fallout and F2.


And I'll add that Reputation in Fallout became Karma, in F2.

And, yes, I would like the world to track my actions' effect on the population. If it's called Reputation, so much the better, because Karma isn't a Tamriel thingy.

I don't want a karma system. But I'd like to see some difference in how npc's react to you based on your actions. The reputation in Morrowind was good, but I felt that there was no fear among npc's if my character was evil. The only noticeable thing was if I had a large bounty.

I'm not quite sure how I'd like it implimented, obviously if I kill a lone traveler on an otherwise empty road I shouldn't get bad rep. because who else would know? And I don't want to get bad Karma for everything I do, a simple thief ends up with maxed evil karma? Again I don't like that.

I would like something more fleshed out then simply a reputation, and I agree with what some previous posts have said, regional and factional rep. would be a great idea. I would love to see that applied to crime too. News isn't instant, so maybe I can out run my rep. or the law. And that makes something like the Black Horse Courier much more important, news from other towns actually effects the world.

I wouldn't care for a Karma system.

The thing about a truly open world is that there won't always be a black and white version of right and wrong. And their certainly shouldn't be. There's also the obvious truth that you can do bad things and not leave any real evidence behind to be caught. Just look at the storyline regarding the Nerevarine. All the saints of the Tribunal and the Nerevarine who were considering some of the holiest of beings and certainly would have been considered 'high' karma during the reign of the Tribunal had dirt on their hands. Even the Nerevarine's hands weren't entirely clean. History isn't what happens, it's just what gets written down. If your character can do something bad and not get caught, then that's the characters choice to make and they shouldn't receive any 'karmic' punishment for it.

i rather have reputation than karma

I beleive the game would be more immersive if they added a karma system aswell as keeping the reputation system, a bit like they did in fallout: New vegas.

Karma's just a lazy way to make a game seem dynamic and that its choices matter. No thanks.

Stick with fame, because it sounds more ambiguous and add more faction rep... like a rep scale for every town. Towns that have active travel and commerce between might be connected in reputation.

I basically agree with everyone in this thread!

A reputation system would be much better than a good/bad moral karma system. Fame/Infamy could work too but it's a bit too restrictive like a karma system.

This. I don't want a Mass Effect or Fable style black and white moral barometer, even in the TES universe. Completely uninteresting. New Vegas showed that old school RPG mechanics can still have a positive influence on gameplay and story, I hope the trend persists.

No. The way it should work is simply Factional Reputation. I hate how most games are cramming this good good/evil determination down our throats. I just want choices and consequences. I decide where my morals lie, not the developer.

Karma systems really are outdated flawed systems. The reason you perform or do not perform actions within the game should be due to actual reactions within the game.

A very skilled thief or assassin should be able to keep up pretences of a good citizen in the eyes of the guards and the other NPC's. A karma system removes the ability for someone to role play. NPC's should like you depending on what they think about you, and what they think about you should depend on what they know not some ethereal karma bar.

I want to become immersed in the game, a karma system keeps bringing my attention to the abstract game mechanics and number crunching behind the scene.

EDIT. Also on the talk about reputation. It should only be changed depending on what people see you do or hear about you doing. If you stealth kill someone a faction likes but no one saw you then you should get away with it. I don’t want the game itself meta-gaming.

EDIT No 2. It would be nice if reputation for factions and town was not represented in a bar, but instead conveyed in game. You would know how people felt about you by the way they talked about you, to you, and acted around you. One problem I can see with this solution is that such a system would be far too overt. Subtly is the key, and always was.