There is also Gothic 3 on Pc. Open world RPG, huge world, a lot of mechanics are similar to TES. Gothic 1 and 2 are great rpg's also, but I thought the 3rd is the closest to TES in scope and how it plays.

Good point. I forgot Gothic. Actually it's interesting that the 3rd one went more open-world, less RPG, and is also the least popular. But I don't really think it means anything, other than maybe that they took on more then they could complete.

I for one am glad they removed the annoying attributes, the birthsigns and the degradation. I like the doomstones and I like that I can shape my character the way I want.

You are glad they removed important RPG elements that actually made each character be different and unique and then ask why is it a lackluster RPG?

No, I asked IF Skyrim is lackluster. I didn't say it was because I don't think it is.

the title does say lackluster RPG...

The title is a question, directed to anyone willing to answer. It clearly says: "

Is Skyrim a lackluster RPG? If so, how?"

A question is a question, not a statement.

I'm not so jaded as Morrowind diehards are about the removal of rpg elements, although I almost am. What bugs me far more is the lack of good content in skyrim. There's a lot to be sure, and you can indeed spend a hundred hours in the game and not have gone through it all. But the major pieces of content, the guilds, the main quest, the gameplay systems, are not deep at all. I'd say the guilds have some of the most lackluster quest chains I've ever played. And the less said about the thieves guild's quest's writing the better.

I sincerely hope that bethesda keeps up the baby steps back to rpg quality they started with skyrim, so we can have a more worthy Fallout or Elder Scrolls in the future.

Skyrim lacks any sort of choice or consequence beyond the most shallow ones. Sure, you can explore, but the actual amount of diversity offered to the player character in terms of determining the outcome of the game's various stories and quests is virtually zilch. I can only think of two off the top of my head: accusing the Windhelm court mage and betraying one of the CW factions (once!).

The linearity of the storyline is staggering, but that could have been overlooked if the writing had been decent. The Main Quest and Dawnguard are terribly written, with only Dragonborn picking up the slack but then screwing up the pacing (poor, poor, forgotten Miraak). Very few characters or antagonists are compelling; Mankar's rants at least made sense and painted a clearer, more ambiguous picture of the man, while Alduin is...I dunno...really angry? This becomes really apparent when you confront Vyrthur; compare him with his NWN2 counterpart, Myrkul.

Both are evil beings whose actions sparked off the the plot, and both have information about what it is you're seeking. Both have characters directly or indirectly influenced by their deeds (Kaelyn for Myrkul, Serena for Vrythur). Both are smug and secure in the suffering they've caused out of revenge (Myrkul for Akachi's betrayal, Vyrthur for ). But just compare your interactions with them; Myrkul interacts with both the player and Kaelyn (and you can choose how the interaction plays out, either supporting, ignoring or mocking Kaelyn), while Vrythur just...kinda...rants.

Role-playing isn't just pretending that you're a potato farmer or Ulfric's bastard offspring or the high priest of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's about how you interact with the world and how the world responds to you. No developer can realistically account for all possible variables, but Bethesda doesn't even try. Marriage is a shallow husk (seriously, what was up with that), written dialogue just makes the Dragonborn out to be spectacularly ignorant (WGC, Talos), and disposition...Jesus.

It must also have a world that is internally consistent. Skyrim...isn't.

The world is better than in New Vegas, sure. In the latter, I don't feel the need to explore but to interact with the characters. The characters there were memorable and the factions were great. You can do a Q and A with all the faction leaders so you get to choose. You can even do faction quests for all the factions up until a certain point where you have to pick a side. Sure, the game itself was shorter and was much smaller than Skyrim's (and sure we don't have rolling hills and beautiful music like Skyrim) but it felt alive.

I love the dungeons, I love the mountains and the attention to detail to the world in Skyrim. However, you only get one choice in each of the quests. In Skyrim, it's killing bandits. In New Vegas, it's killing bandits or trying to reason with them (and then maybe stab them in the back). And don't forget the NPCs saying their life stories every time the player passes them by in Skyrim's towns.

You even have a lone wanderer in New Vegas and you have the option of stealing his guitar which would ruin his life. But no-one would bat an eyelid if you stole from Skyrim's hunters or killed them.

If only TES 6 would have the detailed world of Skyrim and the meaningful choices that New Vegas had and it would be the best RPG of all time. Bethesda can surely do it as they're a powerhouse.

New Vegas was developed by Obsidian.

Using the "mod it" excuse helps none of the millions of console players. Don't forget that. Judge Skyrim in its vanilla state, not modded. Also, don't count on the "console command" feature, for the same reason.

That being said, a Lawful Good type of character is impossible in this game. Bandits "surrender" (for a minute or two) and there is no action your character can make except wait for them to get back and attack you gain. You can not capture and turn them in to the authorities, as an example. A huge part of "roleplaying", being able to play any role you desire. On the flip side, playing a chaotic evil character is nigh impossible. So many NPCs marked "essential" that your hands are tied.

There are usually 2 ways to do quests. Complete as written, or ignore them. Rarely is there a choice on how to complete them. NPCs have this bad habit of just giving quests "willy nilly" to any player who happens by.

Locks. Why must my magic using characters HAVE to pick locks? Where did their open locks spell go? Why do ALL my characters have a high speechcraft skill simply from paying the suggested retail price for goods and services? No haggling. No buttering up. No threatening. Just exchanging money.

Why can't my character dance when the Bards play in the taverns? Why can't they applaud after the Bard finishes a song? Why don't they eat or drink? Heck, why can't my character even PLAY an instrument, is they so desire?

Interaction with NPCs is VERY limited. You have 3-5 dialogue choices, with a few NPCs with LOTS of information giving you more choices (looking at you, Paarturnax and Arngeir).

All of the above are roleplaying aspects that Skyrim does NOT have in the vanilla, unmodded game. There are many, many more examples...

Skyrim DOES have kill cams, though, so I can do some nifty spinning move on a wolf, or send my 2-handed axe into the mouth of a bear. Pretty nifty stuff, but not much on the ropleplay aspects.

I haven't read through the thread yet, so I apologize if this was covered by another poster

Not if what you liked about the previous games gone.

I enjoy playing a game. It may not be perfect, but I enjoy the time I spend playing it. Why would I want something so very different in the next installment? Games can be improved WITHOUT dropping game features or systems. Games are NOT "stale" just because they followed the same formula as before. New stories. New quests. New characters. New areas to explore. New graphics. All can be done to make the games different.

Change, for change's sake, is NOT always a good thing.

Yet your responses show otherwise. You don't say anything similar to, "That's an interesting point." Instead, you come across as VERY argumentative with responses YOU asked for.

Well a lot of people have interesting points, of course.

And that is why i keep calling Skyrim a dungeon crawler. It's the only thing it even tries to do right. Fallout 4 will have glowing exclamation marks above the heads of quest givers and they and shops are the only reason to visit towns, if this trend continues.

Though the Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition are coming to challenge BGS on the open world RPG front, so maybe they'll stop half-assing everything when they get some competition.


Yeah. I've said it before: if BGS paid as much attention to their gameplay mechanics and storylines as they do on their worlds, no one would need to buy another game ever again

It's the greatest handgun ever made. The Colt Single A. . . . err wrong game.

No it's not a lackluster RPG.

I see so many people complaining about Skyrim. 1) If you don't like the game, then don't play it. Come on, that's simple logic. Yes, they took out classes and birth signs, but you realize that you can restrict yourself in what you can do. That's the point of why they did that. So the player can have freedom in WHATEVER he does. If you want to just play a spellsword, then you know what you do? You ONLY use a sword and a spell. You're not forced to be anything other than the Dragonborn just like you're forced to be the hero of Cyrodiil in Oblivion or the Nerevarine in Morrowind. You can choose whatever you want to be. 2) There are mods for anything you want, so YOU can choose what's in the game. It's no excuse for developers, but tell me can you make a better game? Then don't complain. As I said, if you don't like it, don't play it. I just recently was able to start playing it on the computer, yes it's better than the console version, but the console version is still great. In fact, a majority of the console players LOVE the game.

Six bullets... more than enough.

The point.

you.

I was wondering how many pages until the magic formula pops up

This here is constructive criticism, you don't have to "defend" Bethesda by pointing out there's something wrong with us. Yes, I don't enjoy Skyrim as much as the previous TES games, but it's still quite enjoyable as an open world adventure. Enjoyable enough to play it with multiple characters. And I still want the old rpg mechanics brought back in the next installments, and this is the best place to voice my opinion. How about that?

Lmao. Of course I can't. I also can't make better beverages than coca-cola, but it's my right to complain, as a customer and fan of the brand, when I think they've changed the taste for the worse.

Exactly my point. A good story, which outshined anything that Bethesda has ever written, has been written by the writers at Obsidian. I would've thought Bethesda's writers would be top notch in what they're doing but apparently not. It's possible to make a story with tons of choices and fleshed out characters.

I know, right? Still, mods can make a world better. Not the story due to voice acting and the like.

Shouldn't the OP know answer already? Just play it. No, not like a fanladdie, but rather with a more critic mind and you'll likely get the answer yourself.

Oh my god, since when fanb0y is a swear word?

One of the downsides of being as dominant in this market as Bethesda is the media tend to do them favors. They have won awards for the writing in FO3... how would one suit at Bethesda be compelled to hire better writers and up their standards as long as the journalists help them transform their products into gold?

Here's the funny thing, though. Developers cannot please everyone. That's impossible. There will always be people that they make upset by what they did to the game. Yes, there are flaws with Skyrim, but it's the same thing with Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion(I won't mention the ones before because I haven't played them; however, I heard Arena was bad, but it was bad because it had too much on it's plate that it could actually handle). Developers are either going to anger one group or the other, or sometimes both if the game is bad enough. However, millions of people enjoy vanilla skyrim. Yes, you're entitled to not like it, but don't expect developers to be able to meet every one of your needs. They just won't. They'll go with what the general population likes. I don't like ESO(Not sure if I can mention that here), but that's mainly because I don't like a lot of MMOPRGs. That's me. Will I go about ranting to other people how it svcks? Nope. Will I play it? No, but a lot of people like it and I won't ruin that for them. I loved Morrowind, but the fighting mechanics kind of broke the game for me. I still play it. It's a phenomenal game, but I can't mod it seeing as I have it on console. Bethesda saw that a lot of people didn't like it, so they took it out. However, there were probably some people that did like it and they were upset with them. The point I'm trying to get across is that Bethesda cannot please everyone. That's just never going to happen.

Yes, this is the place to voice your opinion. (Sorry, I only thought you quoted me once, and that was the bottom one.)

Also, If I'm coming off as argumentative, I'm really not. I'm just saiyan. Hahaha.