http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1489530-is-skyrim-a-lackluster-rpg-if-so-how/

Lackluster RPG, Great Action Adventure Game

You know, I can compromise and go with what you said.

Let's not compare actual action adventure games with Skyrim. Skyrim is more of an open world RPG or a sandbox RPG, not action-adventure..

Can action-adventure games not be open word/sandbox?

Skyrim is more action than RPG, but obviously still an RPG...What I mean is that Skyrim is more of an action RPG than just a RPG but it is still a fun game. Yes, it is open world and yes, you can be who you want then do what you want but I still think http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1397619-a-plea-to-bethesda/?p=21250609 said a while back stands true:

Well, yes, but Skyrim, if anything, is more a sandbox game.

15% RPG, 85% Memes.

Fable is an Open World Action Adventure Game. I never ever ever ever took Fable as a RPG. It was more of an Action Adventure with RPG elements. And that is where TES is heading with the release of Skyrim, I wouldn't be surprised if TES 6 is just like Fable.

Some elements present in modern (post-Fallout era) computer rpgs are absent in Skyrim, but is it enough to declare Skyrim lackluster...?

In the previous thread we went on to discussing such minutiae as role-playing/play-pretend backgrounds and backstories. Which in Skyrim is kind of half-full, half-empty glass situation. I view it as half-full, only because it is different approach than in most of the other computer rpg titles. Can't say it's a profound aspect of this game - but it's something it deserves a credit for.

It's kind of "Ok, let's not program into the code of the game any tracking of background/backstory whatsoever. Now, what should the rest of the game be like to make it fun and interesting, nonetheless?" point of view.

Same goes with "ok, let's avoid having to program changes in the world presented in the game, so we'd better write all our questlines to not impact the world in a way that would force us to do so".

I said this in the first topic but it got locked because of the post limit before any one can comment back.

I actually think the quests are ok in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim but they are worse than the quests in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. The fetch quests are ok to but I want more quests that have consequences to the actions you make than fetch quests.

I want quests where if you join 1 side the enemy side hates you and if you kill important quest NPC's it should tell you with the death of this character the story has been severed and the truth will never be known and the only way to do that quest again is to re-load a save game. I want quests where I have to investigate stuff that happened to a abandoned or burned down village I have to look for clues in books or talk to NPC's who survived or talk to NPC's in the next village that might know something that happened to that village that is abandoned or got burned down. I want quests where a village is invaded by bandits and a NPC asks for me to help them if I don't do anything to help the bandits end up taking over the village killing every one maybe a lucky NPC flees and survives, stealing whatever they can, and burn it down if they want to. If I liberate the village from the bandits I get rewarded nicely and get recognized as a hero by the village. Or the Imperial army or Nord army or some good army from another race just happens to pass by sees the bandits taking over the village comes in and liberates the village. I also want like some type of ghost investigation quests like in The Witcher where you have to investigate abandoned houses and people who go by those houses say they see ghosts. Kinda like the asylum quest in Flotsam in The Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings. Any one here remember that haunted asylum quest in Flotsam in The Witcher 2: Assassin's of Kings?

The Civil War quest in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim was supposed to be bigger and have more consequences and a high king or high queen to get elected for Skyrim. I heard some people said that Bethesda Game Studios had bigger plans for the Civil War for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim but because of the 11.11.11 release date and the PlayStation 3 (PS3's) and Xbox 360's hardware limitations Bethesda Game Studios never released it as a expansion pack or DLC for free in a patch and never started working on it because they only worked on developing Dawnguard, Hearthfire, and Dragonborn. I would of gladly paid $20 dollars (USD), $30 dollars (USD), $40 dollars (USD) even $50 dollars (USD) for a Civil War expansion pack for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim where the Nords side lets say with the Orc and Redguards and go to Orsinium, Hammerfell, and High Rock to build a army against the Thalmor and go to Summer Set isles to liberate Tamriel from Thalmor rule. Which in return the Imerials also decide to go fight the Thalmor and build up their army and ally with the Nords, Orcs, and Redguards and include naval combat and warfare and have the Imperials rule Tamriel again or heck even have the Nords rule Tamriel this time and elect Ulfric Stormcloak to be the emperor instead of the High King or elect someone else to be the emeperor of Tamriel and Ulfric Stormcloak to remain the High King. Also a High King needs a High Queen.

Because this probably would not be a good idea to release for the PlayStation 3 (PS3) and Xbox 360 develop this Civil War expansion pack and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for PC and release it for sale updated for the PC, PlayStation 4 (PS4), and Xbox One. Since both the PlayStation 4 (PS4) and Xbox One have so much more power now. Sell The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for the PlayStation 4 (PS4) and Xbox One with some new features and have the PC version of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim get some of those features and updates added for free in a patch and sell the Civil War expansion pack for PC, PlayStation 4 (PS4), and Xbox One separately.

I believe The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim still has a lot of potential to have more features and stuff. I think this stuff I talked about can bring a little bit more enjoyable fun to play The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim for some of us.

Any one like my idea for adding more Civil War quests and expanding the Civil War quests with consequences and the ability to travel to a few more provinces as I described? In a official expansion pack released for sale by Bethesda Game Studios?

Like some people said The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is a action RPG video game it has 15% RPG and 85% action. Which for me is not good it's ok but not good.

Skyrim seems lackluster because it tries to be everything: Hack and slash, stealth game, FPS, vampire/werewolf simulator...

With the fact that the only way to go is simply to take either a one-handed sword or a bow since axes and maces are crap, daggers are only good for sneak attacks, magic is weak if you don't use exploits and two-handed weapons are just bad...

Speak for yourself! Nothing says hello like an axe or hammer to the face.

By the time you swing an axe or a mace, the sword would've swung around over 300 times. Ironically, the axe and the mace would've been more useful since the only way for a sword to be effective in real life would be against unarmored foes or if you target the enemy's armor's weak points.

Now you know that isn't true. The speed part.

Look, I get what you're trying to say but no need to exaggerate.

Posted elsewhere, but don't see why considering I talk for no reason:

There is something of a triangle of why gamers like games. Competence, Autonomy, and Relatedness.



Skyrim easily does the first two fine, Relatedness to a point and Competence the best. Autonomy it lacks. Autonomy is do my choices matter? It isn't just freedom, it is, does my freedom affect the world, does my choices with my freedom matter? Which is a no.


I can pretend all I like in Skyrim, but Pretending Doesn't Affect the World Around Me. Pretending only affects my imagination. There was a great thread on here about how much player's skills account for the game and what amount goes to the game? I made a similiar thread when people kept telling me to use my imagination. The thread was how much accounts for the players imagination and the other for the games level of RP?

The only thing Skyrim is best at is Competence, which is gaining achievements and feeling good about oneself for accomplishing something as simple as Trophy. That you hear with the achievement sound.

Relatedness is the least well done. I mean the world is relatable and the world was well developed, but the people and the story were not.

And Skyrim lacks Autonomy. It has freedom sure, but it has nothing else.

I also wrote in another thread about this same tired thing. Choices do not matter if you do not have something the player can attach themselves to. You can have as much freedom and as many choices as you like, but if the player cannot Relate to their world through people, story, etc. Those choices mean nothing.

Skyrim is just an action/adventure game with RPG elements. Nothing you do truly affects the world around you. (aside from the civil war quest) Dialog doesn't change, people don't like you any better, and you still get all the snarky comments from the guards. There is no possible way to fail a quest. (aside from the very few that have two different ways to complete them....) That, and level scaling, and the world revolving around the dragonborn.... sure, it's a fun game to play, (and yes, I play it a LOT) it doesn't really cut it to me to call it an "RPG". Player skill is more important than character skill......

Morrowind, though quite dated now, was the better game, and even IT had some aspects that were lacking.

I wouldn't say Skyrim is an action RPG at all. I've been a pretty good fan of that category, playing all the diablo games among others. One main element of an action RPG is that they really aren't open world, and very linear, and MOST quests need to be done to get to the next 'area' of the game, and to the 'end' of the game. Another main thing, action RPG's really have an end, and past the end of the game's quest, all you do is kill same things over and over for random loot. Whereas, in Skyrim, you REALLY don't loot gear from enemies, you can, but isn't typically how you acquire your gear, most often you craft it or seldomly buy from an NPC. Though there are a few things you loot, but those are pretty much 'quest rewards', like the daedric artifacts.

The sandbox element pretty much takes Skyrim out of the action-RPG category, since you can do anything at any time, and there's no prerequisites to go to pretty much anywhere. Also the nature of the quests would steer it much more to being an RPG, ARPG's quests are all typically geared towards characters of a certain level doing the quest with the reward pretty much being a guaranteed upgrade to your gear and then letting you do the next step of the game's overall single quest chain. The replayability of ARPG's just have you repeating stages of a quest over and over again for no reward, other than random loot from the monsters, Skyrim isn't anything like that.

In ARPG's you do a specific area for the loot the monsters there give you, and maybe a certain specific treasure chest in that area. In Skyrim, you do an area focusing mostly on exploring it, with the killing of monsters as a side note.

Skyrim's still an RPG, just a terrible one. I still think it's one of the best games of last generation but it certainly isn't RPG of the generation.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a game being an action game or adventure game. I think Skyrim is a great sandbox game, according to steam I have played 300+ hours of Skyrim and 200+ hours of GTA4. The question however, is about the RP part of Skyrim. It is more of an action/adventure game than RPG because the experience is designed/scripted to provide a fix linear adventure. Where as an RPG would provide many adventures. The shallowness of a sandbox is fixed by adding meaningful choices and having lasting impacts on that gameworld which is where the sandbox levels up to an RPG. The developers must forget about providing their fix narrative and let the world go crazy in its dynamism and with our input, only then we, the devs and players, can both claim ownership on that emergent story.

I believe the main reason why things you do in game, don't 'really' have lasting effects is because nowadays the mindset is that, that kind of things turns off the casual gamers, and only pleases the hardcoe gamers, and the casual gamer market is huge ! In today's busy world with the casual gamers being the majority, a lot won't play a game where one minor mistake could mean you have to start all over again, throwing away 100's of hours of gameplay. Sure you could reload a previous save, but what if the effect doesn't show up immediately?

Here is another thing, what can an evil person do in Skyrim?

Black Brotherhood, oh boy

Thieves guild, oh boy I actually saw them as more ruffians and even they are sissies who don't kill.

And randomly killing people.

Real good there. I want to be able to do things like meet up with a crazed Cultist or Necromancer who ask you to gather some body parts to summon a great Deadra. Or something like that.

I also feel Skyrim continually lacks any humor. And refuses to be funny other than the Deadra quest.

This is how I feel:

Skyrim runs up happily to the other TES games Oblivion and Morrowind sipping on some Long Island Ice Tea.

Oblivion, "Why so happy young man?"

Skyrim, "Today I am a man just like you and Grandpa Morrowind"

Morrowind, "That's nice dear,"

Skyrim, "Take me seriously. I'm serious. Serious."

Oblivion, "Hahahaa isn't it cute he's trying to be a big RPG like us,"

Morrowind, "Been watching to much Game of Thrones, just let him go off and play"

Skyrim, "I'm a serious dark fantasy! With lots of moral implications."

Morrowind, "So you added children, right?"

Skyrim, "Yes,"

Oblivion, "Where are the beast race children? Why are they all Nord children?"

Skyrim [looks around and mutters] "Not enough time I have to be released by 11/11/11. And I added dragon shouts, and dragons. And there is going to be an explosion with unskippable content and the character creation only happens once so if your character didn't turn out right you're going to have to start all over again and still go through the tutorial."

Oblivion [shrugs] "That's nice dear"

Morrowind, "Sounds rather linear"

Skyrim, "Take me seriously!"

LOL! This.

Idk, but in a conversation of all the TES games I constantly picture Skyrim as the petulent child.

That's nice.