Would you prefer the Skyrim level up system in Fallout 4 or the normal fallout 3 and New Vegas system?

I like it the way it is because the more I use a skill the better I get at it.

I haven't played Skyrim, but I'm assuming the skills go up just by using them. I would have to say I disagree, and would probably like it to be only a temporary bonus, of maybe a maximum of 25%, which slowly increases the more you use a skill and decreases when you don't use a skill, and this can go in a negative direction too for not using skills, and possibly to varying degrees depending on the skill. This will take a long time though so it won't be fluctuating too much.
If I had to choose one or the other, then I'd definitely not go with Skyrim's version.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was implemented, but I would prefer them to keep it as it is, it's been that way (or close enough) since the beginning and feels 'correct' with the whole pip-boy thing.

I'd hate it if Fallout became even more Elder Scrolls.
It should move away from ES, not become one with it.

And no bonuses either, Tag Skills should decide the permanent bonuses like it did back in the day, no temporary bonuses.

On that note, stop giving clothes magical effects Bethesdian! Wearing a lab coat doesn't mean I know anything about science!


Now to explain.
The Elder Scrolls' system looks great on paper, what you use you become better at, it makes sense.
But gameplay wise? It's horrible.
I had to grind around for 100 hours to get my weapon skill up to 100. I don't want to grind enemies to get my weapon skills up.
And Barter? Holy crap Mercantile and Speech in Oblivion and Skyrim were horrible to get up. You had to sell items one by one and grind your way up.
Same with everything in TES.
You either play a character for 2095 hours regularly or you grind grind grind and then grind some more.

And here's the kicker, if they make it too easy to get skills up then we'll become gods way too soon, making it unrewarding.
And if they make it too hard to get skills up then we're forced to grind our way to the top which is just tedious.


Now, why am I against bonuses?
Because of this, say you get 10 skill points each level and say it's not enough to pick "not-bonus" skills, then it either means you won't have enough skill points to get your character to where you projected it would be or that if you pick the bonus all the time then you might become fully skilled in something way too soon.
So say you want your character to be great at Persuasion, Barter and Electronics, then it means that if you don't get a chance to use Persuasion, Barter or Electronics before you level up then you don't get a bonus to the skills you need to increase, and when you finally reach the level cap you might not have had enough skill points for the character you had in mind. Where as someone who goes for bonuses stricly will be able to abuse the bonuses every level, meaning that if each bonus gives 3 increase then they can at lvl 50 have gotten extra skill points.
They should balance the skill system around the set cap and the amount of INT you have, not give you bonuse which can break or unbalance the game.
Besides, we already had bonuses, back in Fallout 1, 2 and Tactics.
They used to be the Tag Skills, after you reached 100 in a skill then the skill point distribution ratio became 2:1 instead of the previous 1:1, what this means is that for the first 100 each increase in Science required one skill point, but once you reached 101+ then it required 2 skill points for 1 increase.
But here is where the Tag Skills shined.
Tag Skills from 1 to 100 gave 2 increase for one single point, and after 100 it gave one increase for one point, and after 150 (IIRC) then it became 2 skill points for 1 increase.

To simplify:

Not tagged Science:
1-100 means 1 skill point for 1 increase. 10 skill points = 10 increase.
101-150 means 2 skill points for 1 increase. 10 skill points = 5 increase.
151-200 means 3 skill points for 1 increase. 9 skill points = 3 increase.

Tagged Science:
1-100 means 1 skill point for 2 increase. 10 skill points = 20 increase.
101-150 means 2 skill points for 2 increase. 10 skill points = 10 increase.
150-200 means 3 skill points for 2 increase. 9 skill points = 6 increase.


They should bring this skill distribution ratio back (But overhaul it to work for a 100 skill cap), not give us bonuses for using energy weapons to kill stuff.



Learn by doing doesn't work, it's grindy, tedious and hard to balance.
And bonuses could unbalance or break the game.
Oh, and it's Fallout, not The Elder Scrolls.


[edit]

Why am I for the previous Fallout bonus system?
Because it emphasized on what you were good at and what you aren't good at.
You pick the skills you will be able to easily get to 100, that is what your character is defined by.
But the rest of the skills? If you want to get them to 100 then it's going to consume a crapload of skill points, and you might only be able to get 5 or 6 skills to 100.
So instead of trying to get every skill to cap players are going to have to ask themselves "Do I want to waste a crapload of skill points to get Explosives to 100 or just leave it at 50 and get Armorer and Hacking to 50?"
It's going to give players an incentive to get only some skills to cap and leave others at decent or just good skill levels and in turn force players to define their characters rather than make jack of all trades.
Also, it's fixed, it doesn't update every level based on what you've used and doesn't have to account for the variables of what the player wants, needs and doesn't need.
Which means it's easier to balance.

The TES "get better as you do it" system for skills isn't horrible. Let's not forget Wasteland had a hybrid system utilizing it.


As for Fallout taking Skyrim's level up system. Why? Skyrim adopted Fallout elements like being classless.

They've had "perks" since what, Oblivion?

Skyrim doesn't have perks. It has a Linear Skill Tree system.

It's attributes are just a bare-bones version of what they've always had. Same functionality.

Thus SPECIAL is superior. And SPECIAL and Fallout skills always could be used for things other than pure combat. Skyrim learned from this.

And no, I didn't feel like FO3 was TES other than too much dungeon design.

Conversation's over really.

FALLOUT doesn't have the most complicated mechanics ever but what it did have had good enough Depth.

Bethesda simply adds mechanics.

HUD elements comes through the Pip-Boy.

The end.

I hate Elder Scrolls leveling up system, on paper it sounds fine but in game is terrible.

Fallout is already too much like TeS as is, lets move it away from that please, I don't like TeS so keep it out of Fallout.

No because Fallout isn't apart of the TES series. I want Fallout to go back to the orginal leveling system of Fallout, Fallout 2 and Tactics.

This.

I say no.

It seems to make sense and all, doing something enough times makes you better at it.
But I dont like each skill becoming its own mini grind

nobody likes the idea of having a small temporary limited skill increase (or decrease) based on it's usage? it would have nothing to do with leveling.

That is what skill magazines are for I guess.

I guess, but I don't know why that would only be temporary, it always kinda bugged me, practice makes more sense. Plus there is no decrease for not using skills with just magazines. Maybe it will be too annoying for people or hard to balance, I dunno.

I'm against the Skyrim system, but I think you're greatly exaggerating. It takes me about 60 hours of normal gameplay (without grinding) to get my combat skill to 100. Besides, why someone would want to grind is beyond me. You do not have to grind the combat skills in Skyrim, you just have to play normally. If you want to get them up faster, fine, but don't pretend that you HAVE to grind them in order to get them up.

http://cheezburger.com/6045561856

I did, I reached 100 in Arhery after 80 hours on my first character and 100 in 2 hand ca 100 hours on my second character.
And I didn't just mean the combat skills, the combat skills are the easy ones to raise (excluding Smithing and Enchanting of course.).
Now getting Illusion and Restoration to 100?
I gave up on that, after 150 hours on my 2nd character I decided that I wanted to end him and play something else, I reached 60-something in Restoration.
I did not use any potions, I solely relied on using healing spells and it still didn't get up.

Hell, the armor skills are the worst, if I hadn't grinded the armor skills then I never would have gotten them to 100.
I think I've stood in front of a mudcrab hitting me for a total of an hour.

So no, I'm not exaggerating, I played Skyrim and that was a complete grindfest.
I several times decided to grind skills because it was the only way to get them up as using them normally didn't lead me anywhere.

If I hadn't cheated with player.incpcs skill for a few things and grinded the rest then I never would have gotten anything apart from Smithing and 2 hand to 100 for my warrior orc character.
So I will damn well say that I 'had to' grind the skills up. Cause I'm not gonna play for 300 hours on one character, and if that was the design then it was a horrible design choice.


[edit]

Just so there is no misunderstanding, I didn't actually "grind for 100 hours straight", I meant that it took 100 hours for me to get 2 Hand up to 100, but a good chunk of that time was spent grinding.

Actually, the combat skills were the easier one to get up to 100, it's the support skills that were even more horrid.
Ugh... The amount of times I went around Whiterun using Persuade with guards to get Speech up... Simply horrible.

Once again, I never grinded to get my armor skills up, and I thought they increased at a reasonable rate. And you have to keep in mind that you need to use stronger spells to get that School increased more. But I agree with you, Speech is a [censored] to level up and should be tweaked.

OT: I don't think they would implement it. I think the skill system is a core part of Fallout, as is SPECIAL and perks.

I've only played the game for maybe 30 hours. And on one character I have light armor, one handed, and destruction at 100. And on the other character I have two handed and heavy armor at 100. The first character I have played for maybe 10 hours, and the second one 20 hours.

So I think you are doing something wrong.

Though i do agree some skills svck at leveling up like archery and speech.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg?1302279568

No really, how the hell did you get the skills up that fast?
I ventured into dungeons constantly fighting enemies, took blows deliberately, and excluded potions from my list of things to use to try and get skills up and you got three of them up in 30 hours?

Did a patch lower the required amount or something?
Cause I can't imagine what I've been doing wrong, I get increase in 2hand from attacking enemies, correct?
Well, I attacked enemies, then I attacked more, and then some. I can't imagine how much more complex it can get than "whack at enemy until drop dead".

Wait, gonna try to load up a save and see what my skills are.

Either my game is bugged, or your game is bugged, or you played after some patch that changed things or you're using a mod.
10 bloody hours?
I... No... No way you got armor skills up to 100 in around 20 hours.

Again, to get an armor skill up you need to what? Get hit. Well, I got hit all-right, I got hit lots and I mean LOTS and I still had to cheat to get it up to 100 because it was so tedious.


[edit]

I checked up on my earliest save for the orc and I mis-remembered the playtime. At around 75 hours I got 2 Hand to 100. I must have confused it with my overall playtime or something.
Still, 75 freaking hours, and for my archer it did take 80 hours.

I am with Gabriel (though less outspoke).. Not only are these two completely different games... They are based on two completely different sets of RPG rules..
And with a passion I would oppose any inclusion of the leveling system of TES in FO games.. Now I am gonna make a bold claim:
No one shoud want this..
There.
Let me explain
I just about can stomach the leveling system in Skyrim, I thought it was tedious in previous TES games.. Skyrim has made it a bit less bothersome because it has been streamlined. (or simplified or made casual as some TES fans will say) But it still irks me.. although it is more " realistic" I, don't like it... I want my RPG's to give me quest experience.. or XP for kills or because I hacked something.
No that's my oppinion my feelings, one of the reasons I like FO more than TES etc..

And that is well because to each his or hers own.. TES is an unique franchise with a, rather, unique way of leveling. It has made the franchise big.
It is also with its wide open world an unique selling point for the series..

Fallout has just one thing in common and that is its wide open world.. (whether we like it or not and no it is not my opinion it's a logical conclusion) which was present in the isometric originals. Thus making an open world RPG with FPS mechanics..is a logical step.
Bethesda, wisely decided, to keep the foundation of the original level system intact, realizing that the two franchises have (here it comes) a different core audience.

As a minor addition, the SPECIAL system combined with skill building like TES would be very hard to implement.

I don't know, but that is how they are. I just kill stuff. I am also on the 360 if that means anything.

I also find one handed and two handed the easiest to level up besides the ones you cheat for (which I did for smithing...)

There I was all in editing mode because I thaught I was going to be ninja'd well instead.. reply time

Eeeeh.. I think (for some weird) reason... You are doing something wrong... Especially destruction is nearly impossible to get to 100 quickly... and the same can be said about light armor..
(one handed can be grinded but in normal gameplay will not level that quickly)


Long story short... (no offence intended w0nderwombat) in a normal pt you can't ..
(grinding is possible though but even then I am curious to the how..)

Hmm, did you dual-wield perhaps? Maybe the game counted for each sword or doubled the increase or something? Only way I could explain for the one-handed part...

Still, from my experience with the learn by doing system I've never thought it has worked good at all.
Combat skills have been the easier ones to get up, but the rest....

I'm envious of how fast it went for you, and I have no idea why it's so different for the two of us, but I have to stand by my experience with this system. Oblivion, Skyrim, Wasteland, neither of them has done Learn By Doing well from my perspective and I certainly don't want Fallout to lose another one of it's elements to a flawed inferior game mechanic.


[edit]

Oh grinding is easy Thorgal Ageirson, though tedious.

Use Soul Trap on guards that don't mind it too badly and repeat, quick save after each successful cast, if they get really pissed off then leave. I think you can also cast it on corpses to grind.

With Speechcraft, go pay for it at Windhelm first to get it up to 40 or something, after that, commit a small crime, just a tiiiny crime, like pickpocketing a potato. Then you use Persuasion in the dialogue for the guard, move on to the next guard and initiate dialogue, (s)he will repeate the "Stop you have violated the law" line and then use Persuasion on him/her too. Do this for every guard in the city, travel away to another city, [wait] for 24 hours or so, maybe more, then go back and talk with every guard again and use Persuasion.
You can't use Persuasion twice though, so make sure you know what guards you've talked to.

With Armor, the only way I could figure out how, was to stand next to one mudcrab and let it pinch me while I watched TV (which is right next to the computer), whenever I heard the health going low I used double healing hands spell to heal myself up and rinse and repeat.

Though perhaps you meant that getting a skill to 100 withing 20 hours can be done through grinding?

I think I may have mixed the times up though, first character was 20 hours, second was 10 hours.

The first character I just did many dungeons with a shield and a skyforge steel sword. Smacked enemies with shields and slashed at them for several hours. Then after I beat Alduin I switched to destruction and just shot stuff. The majority of the time I had nightengale armor, then dragonscale armor.

The second guy, I cheated in smithing really quickly so for a daedric two hand, and daedric armor. He just kills everything, and it has seemed to work rather well.

If I was grinding I was doing it unintentionally.

But I agree, there are many flaws with the system, and it can be laborious. Doesn't belong in fallout.

Edit: I looked up my play time and it was 50 hours. 10 hours are to my brother's guy. And the other 40 hours seem to be closely split down the middle, give or take an hour or two.

Ok that is in fact a far more feasible playing time to get a skill to 100.. (though even then you leveled to 100 really quickly)

Edit: It's a sign... Leveling like in Sktrim simply isn't suited to people like me and Gabriel.