Skyrim limited due to consoles?

Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:05 am

READ THIS POST FIRST


Hello,

After seeing the information that has emerged about Skyrim the shift in direction of streamlining that was set in motion for Oblivion seems set to continue. And many of us who intend to play Skyrim on our PC's are concerned that it will under utilise our hardware.

I have been on these forums for a while now and the general consensus is that the blame for all of the above lies squarely at the feet of the "casual gamer", the console manufactures for not releasing new systems and Bethseda for making the game for these systems. But is that really the case?

I don't think it is.

First of all I have owned several games consoles and handhelds over the years along side my PCs. Many of the games I played on consoles I found as deep, challenging, innovative, complex and as satisfying as those i've played on PC so the notion that the console gamers need games to be simplified, easy and generic rings hollow to me. There is something else at play here.

It can't be denied that console hardware is lagging a long way behind the capabilities of a modern PC and that if Bethseda were to make Skyrim PC exclusive we could have a much better looking game, more NPC on the screen, open Cities, so on and so forth. So why are Bethseda targeting the console's with their dated tech?

The fact of the matter is that making games today on any platform is more expensive than at any point in the past, and this is not simply not an inflationary increase, it is several orders of magnitude more expensive (in real terms) to make a game today than in 2002 when our beloved Morrowind was released. This is because newer hardware can process more data, much more data and this data needs to be created by the developers, Higher res textures require more work by digital artist than lower res ones. More sophisticated animation means more work for animators so on and so forth.

These higher costs has created an environment of high risk for games developers. If you sink all your cash into a game and it flops you are out of business. Skyrim is being developed in this environment (and in the environment of the wider economic climate) with a larger team than Oblivion and has been in development for at least 3 years so it is likely to be on the very expensive side with regards development costs.

On side note I also think that it is economics behind Microsoft and Sony delaying the release of the next gen consoles. Making games for the next gen will be another step up in costs meaning fewer games will be made for those systems meaning the systems them selves may flop.

With this in mind is a large more complex, detailed Skyrim that utilises the latest PC hardware really a wise financial choice for Bethseda to make? Realistically I don't think it is.

What Bethseda is doing is mitigating their financial risk. They not only feel they need tap in to the substantial console RPG market but also appeal to a wider crowd across all platforms PC included to secure their investment in this project.
On that point I feel that the platform where largest "casual market" potential exists is in fact the PC (after all it's not being released on Wii). Pretty much everyone has a PC, pretty much anyone who has a relatively new PC should be able to run Skyrim, but those of us who are only occasionally interested in games are unlikely to own a 360 or PS3.

So economics is bogeyman then?

No, I don't think we have got to the bottom of it yet, who's fault is it?

Well, it's my fault, I'm driving up the cost of games development. The thing is I don't want N64 performance on my 360 and I don't want 360 performance on my Radeon 6950 GPU, I want the best my hardware can produce, furthermore I am not willing to pay more for games, I think they are pricey enough thank you. It's also likley your fault too.


TL:DR version

Consoles aren't limiting Skyrim, I am and so are you.
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Amanda Leis
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:01 am

I can already tell where this thread is heading.

Many people are going to diagree with you here, so get ready for a storm of stupid comments.
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Alexis Estrada
 
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Post » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:16 pm

The game size is being limited to a single dvd.
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:14 am

I can already tell where this Thread is heading.


Who'd I upset?
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Eileen Müller
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:22 am

Who'd I upset?


Most people will react to the title of the thread without reading the content.
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Angelina Mayo
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:10 pm

Who'd I upset?


Sorry, that came out wrong, what I meant to say is, the subject of this thread might be looked down on, these kind of threads often degenerate into console wars.
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George PUluse
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:53 am

Considering the fact that its only a 2007 game (among a few others, like Metro and possibly Witcher 2) that are actually even pushing modern hardware to their actual limits, I fail to see why graphics are really such a big deal.
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Richard Dixon
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:27 am

did you read the OP? @Dragonforks
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Jennie Skeletons
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:20 am

did you read the OP? @Dragonforks


I admit, I jumped the gun a little bit on that one, but it just shows that some people will take offense at the title alone and over react, myself included, I apologise.
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Wayland Neace
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:43 am

I can already tell where this thread is heading.

Many people are going to HAVE FITS, so get ready for a storm of AWESOMELY ENTERTAINING comments.


Fixed.
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Genocidal Cry
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:39 am

The game size is being limited to a single dvd.


true :sadvaultboy:

and btw I have nothing against consoles I just think people that use them don't like "complexity" i there games :teehee:

:ahhh:

:nod:

:bolt:
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Stryke Force
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:02 pm

The game size is being limited to a single dvd.


Yep, so it can be released on 360.

I'm pretty sure I explained why in my post it's little more nuanced than Bethesda want it on 360 to cash in, in reality they don't have much choice. Multi platform allows them the freedom to spend more on developing content for aforementioned dvd without having to worry so much about covering their substantial costs.
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xx_Jess_xx
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:57 am

Fixed.


I lol'd, some comments I've read on other such threads have been most entertaining I admit.

But I would hate to see another sensible thread deteriorate into arguing over pieces of plastic.
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Robert Jackson
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:23 am

oh no *awaits the fire* :flamethrower:
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LijLuva
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:37 am

I lol'd, some comments I've read on other such threads have been most entertaining I admit.

But I would hate to see another sensible thread deteriorate into arguing over pieces of plastic.


I agree. But we all know it will probably happen. Might as well enjoy ourselves.

And if it doesnt happen, it will be an wonderful surprise.

Either way. Enjoy.
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Bigze Stacks
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:04 am

Hmm, maybe it wasn't clear enough. OP, care to edit your original post and add the TL;DR version with bigger font and the color of red. Thank you :)
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Tyrel
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:48 am

I agree. But we all know it will probably happen. Might as well enjoy ourselves.

And if it doesnt happen, it will be an wonderful surprise.

Either way. Enjoy.


I will be secretly cheering you on all the way, God Speed!
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Nikki Morse
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:00 am

I think we're estimating more than we're flaming. I've yet to see one hateful post on this thread.
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GEo LIme
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:02 am

Considering the fact that its only a 2007 game (among a few others, like Metro and possibly Witcher 2) that are actually even pushing modern hardware to their actual limits, I fail to see why graphics are really such a big deal.



Well that just serves to illustrate my point the fact the very few PC games actually push the hardware shows that doing so is probably very expensive and risky for developers.
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Paula Ramos
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:44 am

Well that just serves to illustrate my point the fact the very few PC games actually push the hardware shows that doing so is probably very expensive and risky for developers.


Hats off to DICE, then.
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Andrew Tarango
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 8:46 am

Im glad the game has been streamlined, so that I can play a great action game on my 360. :wink_smile:
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Ana Torrecilla Cabeza
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:37 am

Hats off to DICE, then.


Indeed.

Hmm, maybe it wasn't clear enough. OP, care to edit your original post and add the TL;DR version with bigger font and the color of red. Thank you :)


Have done
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matt oneil
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:29 am

Well that just serves to illustrate my point the fact the very few PC games actually push the hardware shows that doing so is probably very expensive and risky for developers.

Imagine skyrim with BF3's graphics. That way you wouldn't dare to say that graphics aren't a big deal.
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Destinyscharm
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:05 am

Imagine skyrim with BF3's graphics.


I came.
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Alexx Peace
 
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Post » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:31 am

READ THIS POST FIRST


Hello,

After seeing the information that has emerged about Skyrim the shift in direction of streamlining that was set in motion for Oblivion seems set to continue. And many of us who intend to play Skyrim on our PC's are concerned that it will under utilise our hardware.

I have been on these forums for a while now and the general consensus is that the blame for all of the above lies squarely at the feet of the "casual gamer", the console manufactures for not releasing new systems and Bethseda for making the game for these systems. But is that really the case?

I don't think it is.

First of all I have owned several games consoles and handhelds over the years along side my PCs. Many of the games I played on consoles I found as deep, challenging, innovative, complex and as satisfying as those i've played on PC so the notion that the console gamers need games to be simplified, easy and generic rings hollow to me. There is something else at play here.

It can't be denied that console hardware is lagging a long way behind the capabilities of a modern PC and that if Bethseda were to make Skyrim PC exclusive we could have a much better looking game, more NPC on the screen, open Cities, so on and so forth. So why are Bethseda targeting the console's with their dated tech?

The fact of the matter is that making games today on any platform is more expensive than at any point in the past, and this is not simply not an inflationary increase, it is several orders of magnitude more expensive (in real terms) to make a game today than in 2002 when our beloved Morrowind was released. This is because newer hardware can process more data, much more data and this data needs to be created by the developers, Higher res textures require more work by digital artist than lower res ones. More sophisticated animation means more work for animators so on and so forth.

These higher costs has created an environment of high risk for games developers. If you sink all your cash into a game and it flops you are out of business. Skyrim is being developed in this environment (and in the environment of the wider economic climate) with a larger team than Oblivion and has been in development for at least 3 years so it is likely to be on the very expensive side with regards development costs.

On side note I also think that it is economics behind Microsoft and Sony delaying the release of the next gen consoles. Making games for the next gen will be another step up in costs meaning fewer games will be made for those systems meaning the systems them selves may flop.

With this in mind is a large more complex, detailed Skyrim that utilises the latest PC hardware really a wise financial choice for Bethseda to make? Realistically I don't think it is.

What Bethseda is doing is mitigating their financial risk. They not only feel they need tap in to the substantial console RPG market but also appeal to a wider crowd across all platforms PC included to secure their investment in this project.
On that point I feel that the platform where largest "casual market" potential exists is in fact the PC (after all it's not being released on Wii). Pretty much everyone has a PC, pretty much anyone who has a relatively new PC should be able to run Skyrim, but those of us who are only occasionally interested in games are unlikely to own a 360 or PS3.

So economics is bogeyman then?

No, I don't think we have got to the bottom of it yet, who's fault is it?

Well, it's my fault, I'm driving up the cost of games development. The thing is I don't want N64 graphics on my 360 and I don't want 360 graphics on my Radeon 6950 GPU, I want the best my hardware can produce, furthermore I am not willing to pay more for games, I think they are pricey enough thank you. It's also likley your fault too.


TL:DR version

Consoles aren't limiting Skyrim, I am and so are you.

Sincerelly, after reading your post I must say that you are argumenting against what you claim. You basically give a bunch of reasons because consoles are roting game industry and finally blame PC gamers for not being a bunch of consumists. Well, it's your thread.
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Crystal Clarke
 
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