Unless you know the cell count AND the size of each cell, you CAN'T draw any conclusions about the size of the game world! They could use fewer cells but scale each cell up for a larger world, or more cells but scale them down for a smaller world, or any possible combination of cell count * cell size.

Furthermore, city sizes and count, run speed, encounter frequency, landscape, and content all have a huge affect on the apparent world size. Any speculation on the world size right now is a waste of time, as nobody on these boards has even close to enough info.

For all of you asking for details/proof, move along....you won't get anything more than guesswork here until someone from Beth or someone who has actually played a demo (not likely until at least July) comments on this specifically.

On that map the cities are represented by Icons of what is, presumably, their keeps or main house. I don't think too much can be inferred about the cities size purely on the basis of the amount of space the icon takes up on the map.

Add to that "Depth Que", "View Distance", "Fast Travel" and "Initially Fogged/Covered Map".

Fo3 is bigger then ob the devs have said as much and as I have played both games I can say 100% it is alot bigger.

Now fonv is even bigger by a good bit then fo3....

Now looking at the maps of ob fo3 and fonv and the map of skyrim.... Either the road system is realy dense and winda around extememly oddly in places.. and there are alot of realy itty bitty fiddly bits up north and a huge metric rumpload of fiddly bits to the west OR the scale of the squares is about the same and thus skyrim is about twice as wide as fonv and about as tall. And thus one hell of alot bigger then ob was.

My friend you are Sadley Mistaken about Fallout being larger then OB. especially when in actual context Fallout 3 is the DC area while Oblivion is a almighty Province.

If you call that an extremely dense road system, you obviously haven't been anywhere, ever. Even in Oblivion they had tons of small fiddly bits in the road shape, and you can see it needs those roads to reach all the settlements.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2008/aug/05/fallout3interview There's a source from the developers saying Fallout 3 is smaller.

Yes that interview was done before they expanded the wasteland.. In fact they doubled the wasteland portion of the map.

What I don't get is why is riverwood right there on top of throat of the world? Should high hrothgar be there? Some have stated here that riften may be the starting point but the gi article mentioned riverwood quite a few times so maybe that is where we start. That would be strange because river wood sits so close to high hrothgar going by the distorted map here?

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3503/maplabels.png

This map shows that riverwood is actually down by the river where most likely a wood can be found as well right underneed the mountain. This is 200 years into the future. high hrothgar was a village on the top of the mountain. Atleast it was 200 years ago. It could still be there but I think they've opted to make high hrothgar more special by only having the greybeards up there far away from civilization. People from high hrothgar could now be living in riverwood.

Riverwood being mentioned so much in the gi article is slightly strange then because it its right down by throat of the world I don't see that as the starting point in the game. Wouldn't throat of the world be somewhere we would go later in the main quest? The article mentioned something about a quest in riverwood where you go to a dungeon to retrieve a golden artifact for a shopkeeper in riverwood.

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3503/maplabels.png
How can we even tell that this is where Riverwood is? Is it just baseless speculation, or can someone read the blurry text in the map? I sure can't.

The engine is completely new, I doubt they'd even be using the same cell system they had in TESV..

Which reminds me of how awesome it would be to have seamless integration of indoor and outdoor cells. I'm sure it's possible with occlusion culling technology, such as Umbra software which I hope ESV is using.

I'm using the name riverwood because the creator of the image put it there.

However it is clear that there is a village there. Look at the terrain, you see a square very much like at the known cities. Maybe you should check it on a map that doesnt have the red markers on it, there clearly is a village there. And there isnt one on the mountain.

EDIT: There actually is 'something' on the mountain. A little square can be seen on it, but like all the other smaller squares it hsa been ignored by the creator of the map.Could be High Hrothgar or only the cave/casttle of the greybeards.

On top of the biggest mountain on the map there is a square, and right under it clearly says "Throat of the World"

They will not be using the engine from TES V to make TES V? You're going all Star Trek time paradoxal on me!

I really think Skyrim will be a winter-like version of Rohan...but it could be unique in its own way. I'm just saying it sort of resembles it with mountain fortresses and Nordic-like architecture.

MUSTER THE ROHIRIM!

I can make out the words "Divine Birth" underneath Windhelm there, so my guess would be that's the start point?

that should be high hrothgar shouldn't it?

High Hrothgar is the Throat of the World, yes.

Oh god, I love sewers. The Imperial City actually has pretty awesome sewers I just wish they'd done more with them.

Given how universally despised sewers are among gamers, I'm kind of surprised this conversation is happening. Who knew sewers had fans?

No, that's just the settlement on the top. The mountain has a different name.



I love sewers. Ever since thief 1 where you could sneak around guards via sewers I've been a fan.

And cross-posting here as well, everything I've been able to find out about the geography of Skyrim so far:

So, I've been collating information on the map of Skyrim from various sources, and what I've put together here is the most comprehensive guide I can figure out to what we know about the geography and geopolitics of Skyrim. A small amount of this is speculative, but not too much:

Skyrim is traditionally divided into nine "Holds," administrative subdivisions similar to Cyrodiilic counties. Judging by the map, each Hold will be a discrete geographical region with its own look and feel. The northern and eastern Holds are known collectively as the "Old Holds," and have a large Nord majority, are the bastions of Nord traditionalism, and are ruled by hereditary aristocracy. It seems likely that the Old Holds would be the main power center for the anti-Imperial Nords. The Old Holds are as follows:

- Winterhold consists of Skyrim's northeastern coast. Winterhold contains two cities - Dawnstar, and its capital, also named Winterhold. The city of Winterhold is likely one of the game's five major cities. Winterhold is historically one of the most important power centers in Skyrim, rivaled only by Whiterun and Solitude. It is a major trading port with a flourishing economy, and is located near the ruins of Saarthal, the original capital of Skyrim. After the destruction of Morrowind, Winterhold became the home of large numbers of Dunmer refugees. It contains both the famous College of Winterhold and the Ysmir Collective, a library rescued from the destruction of Morrowind.

- Eastmarch is in eastern Skyrim, on the border with Morrowind. Eastmarch is described as "Volcanic Tundra," and its only city is Windhelm, the ancient capital of the First Empire, traditional capital of Skyrim, and one of the game's five major cities. During Tiber Septim's reign, Windhelm was an important Imperial garrison, defending the Dunmeth Pass to Morrowind..

- Rift is located in southeast Skyrim. Rift is described as "Fall Forest," and its only city is Riften. Riften is one of the game's five major cities, but we don't know much about it other than that it sits on the edge of a lake.

- The Pale is a valley, located in north-central Skyrim. It is described as "Snow" and apparently contains no cities


The remaining holds are much more cosmopolitan. With one notable exception, while these Holds may a have hereditary aristocracy, they are effectively governed by elected councils called "Moots."

- Falkreath Hold is in southwest Skyrim. It contains the city of Falkreath, but Falkreath does not appear to be one of the game's five major cities.

- The Reach consists of western Skyrim. It consists of "Canyons and Mesas." The Reach is supposedly the most cosmopolitan Hold, with large Orcish, Breton, and Imperial populations. The Reach does not appear to contain any large cities.

- Whiterun is located in south-central Skyrim. It is described as "Tundra." Whiterun contains two cities: Markarth Side and its capital, also called Whiterun, one of the game's five major cities. Whiterun contains the Throat of the World, the tallest mountain in Skyrim, and the second-tallest in all of Tamriel, after Red Mountain in Vvardenfell. At the peak of the Throat of the World is High Hrothgar, the home of the ancient greybeards, masters of the ancient Nord art of thu'um. Tiber Septim established an Imperial College of the Voice in Markarth Side to promote the study of thu'um, but in practice the College serves more as a babysitter for young Nord nobles. The city of Whiterun was once known as the "Imperial City of Skyrim," but its fortunes declined late in the Third Era. Near the end of the Third Era, the city and Hold were effectively ruled by a witch named Jsashe, a self-proclaimed "priestess of Lorkhan." According to the map, Jsashe's Coven is still the supreme ruler of Whiterun.

- A Hold of uncertain name in northwestern Skyrim, on the northwestern bank of a large river delta. It contains the city of Solitude, one of the game's five major cities and Winterhold's traditional rival as the most important city in Skyrim. Solitude is the northernmost city in Tamriel, and a major trading port. It was also the home of Potema, the "Witch-Queen of Solitude," an aunt of the Empress Kintyra who attempted to usurp the Imperial throne. There is still a movement, called the H?rme, who considers Potema and her son Uriel III to have been the last true emperors of Tiber Septim's bloodline, and actively oppose the Empire. Solitude is an ally of Dawnstar in Winterhold, and is also an active sponsor of exploratory expeditions to the Sea of Ghosts and beyond.

- Another Hold of uncertain name in northwestern Skyrim, southeast of the river delta. We know basically nothing about this one.


Skyrim's royal family all claim descent from Ysgramor, the warlord who first conquered Skyrim. When the succession is in doubt, a Moot is convened, consisting of representatives from all nine Holds, to elect the new King from the members of the royal family. Given what we know of the Skyrim Civil War, this probably didn't work.