Skyrim is changing a lot of gameplay mechanics, and many people have deemed this new take on the game as streamlining. If you really want to see streamlining, play Daggerfall then play Morrowind or Oblivion. No, I'd call this something else.

I am an avid Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) player (Now D&D, there's another game that's getting streamlined, damn 4th edition... Anyways...) and I remember one interesting game that I had, in which my players and I decided to try a new type of game with D&D. We decided to play without the rule books, and without dice. Players didn't have character sheets either, they had certain things they were good at, and some were stronger, and some were smarter than others, etc. but that's were it ended. Combat was played out verbally, the players describing what their characters did. Nobody ever chose a class, or even leveled up. They just got better at certain activities as they did them. That campaign was the most immersive, deep, and thought provoking campaign we've ever played to this day. It was truly incredible.

Now think about the direction Skyrim is headed. We've lost classes, we've lost abilities, we've lost many other things too, but is this really streamlining for the wider audience? I don't think so. I think they're taking Skyrim in a bold new direction, and I think it will be immersive, deep, and thought provoking, more so than any game to come before it. Skyrim is moving in a bold new direction, and I like it.

Class is just a title

A worthless one at that since I bet most people made a custom one I made on call Derp, Coolaid, Swordguy, and Opera

I agree as said above, it's just a name. People can still do the same as before. I believe we are being given a new found freedom. What's immersive about being tied down to classes? Nothing that comes to mind for me. I think it's a good step in the right direction.

I certainly love what they did with the system. I am actually wondering why I didn't think of that. They certainly surpassed my silly suggestions. I am sure there are many RPG fans rejoicing around the internet about this move by Bethesda. I hope we get rid of leveling too.

There is just...so much I disagree with in this topic its making my head hurt.

And also, be prepared to be fairly disappointed. You might not be, but don't be foolish and ride the hype wagon.

Everyone has different opinions on things. Some will like some won't. I personally think I will like it. I know however what you mean about not riding the hype

Lol, I'm not being foolish, but I'm definitely riding the hype wagon. By the time Skyrim is out, I hope to have hyped it so far out of proportion it'll seem like a totally different game when I get it. Ok, maybe not that far, but I am truly enjoying all of the hype.

I think it will be horrible and the worst thing ever!

Okay, I don't actually feel that way at all. But the point is, no one has any idea at this point, so it's anyone's guess. I like the story though!

Well, hey I'll freely admit that I'm probably going to enjoy Skyrim just as much as the next guy. But that really doesn't stop me from being upset at whats been removed. Entire playstyles for me have been removed entirely in this game and I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it.

It's really not that big of a change.
It's still the same system but a different take on it, that's why I tend to be confused how this ruined everything.

All I can think of is that some people just won't accept that things can be done with a different perspective, not with just slight changes...

Just because things can be done from different perspective doesn't mean its a good idea to do so.

Classes were just a means of guiding new players to the best Major/Minor skills that suited their (presumed) playstyle. They were nothing more than a title, a category of certain skills grouped a certain way, that was barely mentioned outside of chargen. In fact, did Class names even appear anywhere in Oblivion? Anyways, with Major/Minor skills gone, Classes where wholly arbitrary so they were removed.

As for removing skills, nothing has actually been removed from the game. Mysticism as a focus was removed but the actual spells were shifted to other schools. A fight type still has to choose to focus (or not to focus) on a specific weapon type through the perks, even though they're been removed as specific skills. And so on.

The fundamentals are all still there, just under different names. To get upset over the changes is like... is like arguing that one label of bottled water is different/better/worse than another. Or comparing drinking from a glass versus a bottle.

It is almost mathematically better. I don't understand what you think that is so wrong about the new system. Just think you're like Jason Bourne or Neo from Matrix if you have roleplaying related concerns. Hell, just imagine you're discovering what your character is good at as a player gradually matching the speed of progression of your character.

By level 10, everyone will be so permanently different, all previous TES games will be jokes compared to Skyrim in character progression.

Be prepared to be amazed!!!

PS. That doesn't mean I am happy about the removal of flails, climbing, medical skill, levitation, throwing weapons, spears and acrobatics... I honestly think the new system will rock though.

In all fairness we can only form opinions as we have not seen the system in action nor played it ourselves.

Thats the problem I have. I can no longer play my pure mystics. Now, pure mystics are now just pure mages (that use every skill that carries a former mysticism spell) or they are warriors or stealth characters who have to dabble in almost every magic school just to get the advantages of Mysticism.

And also, classes mean a LOT more when you actually roleplay and get into what you're doing. If you don't do that then you may as well just say screw skills altogether.



Or, I could know exactly what my character is good at and start off accordingly, improving as I go through the game.



Which could have happened had they retained much of what they cut out. Indeed, retaining a lot of what they cut (which had no good reasons to be cut anyway) and coupling them with what Skyrim has (perks, etc) would make a system better than either one.

Don't get me wrong. I like a lot of what Skyrim has done. But it could be better. And I don't need to play the game to know that. The mere fact that ENTIRE playstyles have been forcibly removed proves it.

I got a question does any one got a link to what they removed from the previous games besides attributes and classes?

You know, we havent really lost nearly as much as the harcorzzzz neurotic fan kids would have one believe.

Definitely a glass.

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1204240-is-water-better-from-a-bottle-or-glass/

You all realize none of these changes are really at all substantial, right?
The things that are change game mechanics are new the additions, not the things from the past that they've taken away or tweaked.

No classes isn't going to change how you play, but dual-wielding will.

And there may be new ones. If the Skyrim system had come before the OB/MW/DF system, then changed to the old one, I am sure someone would be saying one of their playstyles from the Skyrim system was being forcibly removed.
And you would possibly get this :
New magic school, mysticism announced :celebration:

Mysticism spell effects announced :facepalm:

I wouldn't say a bold new direction for 3 reasons:
1: The removal of attributes and adding of level-chosen benefits are more about removing grinding. The same goes for skill-milestone perks being switched with perks, and classes being removed in favor for a more fluid system.
2: The introduction of Dragons and the Thu'um is more about adding them too the game as they hae existed in the lore for a long time.

I still agree that these changes are good and my opinion is that this is the natural evolution of the series.

Also: Just want too add that Streamlined does not mean dumbed down

That'll work best in Skyrim. It was the point I was trying to make in the quoted part. You *know* what your character is good at(game doesn't know), you improve through the game. The game responses organically.

i too like the direction skyrims going but i will reserve my full judgement for when i get past the title screen and enter the world

i like classes, skills, and all that..

"Change"...

yeah the US has had plenty of that. Hows it working out?

Change isnt always a good thing. I prefer how things were.

Call me an old man if you will.