In case you didn't know, American Indians have extremely wiry hair, it's just straighter than that of Africans. Yeah, you're right about the black voice actors. Are you saying American Indians don't have athletic prowess? American Indians were much larger (muscular and build) than most (if not all) Europeans an were very athletic. In fact, I remember reading about a tribe in Chihuahua, Mexico or somewhere near that region that actually chased deer down and beat them to death. I don't know about you, but I've never heard of Africans chasing down a similar animal and beating it to death.
And in case some of you didn't catch on, my post commenting on their names being Redguard and not Blackguard, it was meant to be taken light-heartedly and not seriously.

See... its comments like that that irritate. Please... refute my evidence and enlighten me as to the truth about my own "race." Because you know.... I've never looked in to it. Tell me; what do all Africans look like, because you seem to know much more than I.

And please offer your objection to the post above that was in disagreement with your opinion as well. You seem to know what you're talking about, so do it.



The whole point of my post was to offer an example that not all Africans have very dark skin. And like I said, it is not due to recent "race mixing" (even if it were, that all of a sudden does not negate the fact that those people are Africans. If that is what you are suggesting, then you will be hard pressed to find an African in the Americas that you could truly call black. Are Germans not white if they have Mongolian blood in them? Are you no longer considered white if you have a distant African slave relative?). Ive been there. I know. The term "redbone" was used by African slaves when they came in contact with Africans who had a lighter or "redder" complexion than they did. It is suggested that many of these people who had lighter complexions were of igbo (ebo or ibo will also suffice) heritage. The igbo have always been known for their varying skin complexions which can easily explain my cousins almost orange hair. Do you see how igbo could be intertwined with red to create the new term "redbone" to describe them? So when people say Redguards are not based off Africans, but rather Native Americans, because they have a reddish tint it kinda makes me wonder. Its like they are purposely ignoring the "wiry hair" hair described in the lore, the Afrrican American voice actors, and the general "athletic prowess," just to distance the Redgaurds from African peoples. And I wonder why.

So in essence, you are reading far too deeply into stereotype. Not all Native Americans look like http://www.sportslogos.net/logo.php?id=im5xz2q9bjbg44xep08bf5czq. Not all Africans look like http://www.art.com/asp/View_HighZoomResPop.asp?apn=15429099&imgloc=37-3726-Z00FASQH.jpg&imgwidth=670&imgheight=894&artistName=Published+by+Art.com%2C+inc.

And in the lore it is clear that Redguards are modeled after black Africans. The reason I say this is beacuse they are said to have "wiry" hair. The only people on Earth who share this trait are black Africans, their descendants who may be of mixed heritage due to African diaspora and some people from the islands out East. Face it - Redguards are just as black African as Nords are white European.

^This

And

Egyptians are African and are not black. Same with Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, and Moroccans. All of Northern Africa is not really black. So really the term African-American is not that accurate because you could be describing a huge variety of people, not just a black person. But the Redguard race is most definitely modeled after darker, black Africans. (Plus Adrenaline Rush is the best power ever!!!)

Absolutely!!! Redguards are practically my favourite race, placing just a narrow second behind Imperials. I love their culture, background, history and general world. However, I feel that this is poorly represented inside the games themselves as Redguards are simply made out to be the 'black humans' instead of the wholly unique and amazing race they are.

Instead of merely giving them Afros and dreadlocks (you can do better Bethesda :rolleyes:) I'd love for them to be as fleshed out ingame as they are in the lore. I want their warrior culture to be present at all times, but I also want to see their cultural divisions. I want them to be physically distinguishable from the other races as the lean, athletic men they are. I want justice done to them at long last, for they truly are an amazing race.

I feel that the most well developed races so far are Dunmer and (to a lesser extent) Imperials. This is no suprise, since these peoples' home provinces were covered in games, but really, in comparison Redguards (as well as say Bosmer and Orsimer) have barely a fraction of that 'substance' included ingame. I can only hope that, with Skyrim sharing a border and troubled history with Hammerfell, Redguards will be a little more prominent in The Elder Scrolls, becoming the mighty seafaring masters of combat they are in lore instead of merely being 'the black option'.

For the record, I'm white and that's no barrier for me to love Redguards as much as I do; I pretty much relate more to Redguards than say Nords or Bretons (though I'm closer to Imperials mind you), but really this is shallow in itself. The challenge of a roleplaying such as in the TES series is not to convey your own identity within the gameworld, but rather to craft a new one within it, adhering to its principles. With such a large selection of races with rich backstory and a huge difference between them, everyone has a race they prefer, and Redguards are it for me (along with Imperials).

What's wrong with Redguard? I personally like them the way they are. :confused:


Wasn't that way in Arena.

You know.... "black" people are not actually BLACK. Some may come vaery close, but many are not. The skin tone varies more than most other groups of people. Ever heard of the term "redbone"? Yellowbone? My Oblivion Redguard had a red sheen to him, but so do I. :shrug:

As for the Redguards... Im just asking for haircuts that make sense. Redgaurds are supposed to have wiry hair, yet half of the haircuts look like something off an anime character. Id at least want dreads back or something. As long as they dont look like Prince because if I recall correctly, Tamriel doesnt have Soul Glo

I agree with you but I voted "No" because Crowns and Forebearers refer to political allegiances in TES: Redguard, not "breeds." =/

Oh please, post-TESA: Redguard Redguards have plenty of merits to stand on! Like being the only human race with consistently good voice actors through both Morrowind and Oblivion. I dearly hope they bring back Michael Mack for Skyrim - I wouldn't want anyone else's voice doing the Redguards, and he's done justice to them ever since voicing Cyrus himself.

I've always enjoyed the overall attitude of Redguard NPCs, but they definitely need a visual overhaul. I really want to see an Elder Scrolls game (or expansion, wink wink) set in Hammerfell. I really want to see Bethesda explore the older, Arabic elements the Redguards had in their culture during Arena/Daggerfall and how the political climate is among the merchant princes.

Visually, I hope that they have more racial subtleties in their appearance. Just as I'd like to see subtle Celtic influences on the Bretons: more pointed noses and higher cheekbones, as an example, the Redguards should have less plump faces. I wouldn't say they should look African per se as their cultural inspiration is far more mixed than that, though.

Not to sound racist (because someone will misconstrue it, I'm sure) but I believe Redguards are so underused because white gamers just cannot relate to black characters.

It's a stigma that stems mostly from the MMO genre. Where to many, your online avatar has to relate to you personally or else you're "weird." You see the debate all over MMO forums: "why do guys play as girls?" and it always boils down to those who view their avatar as themselves in the world, and those who take the opportunity to become someone else. With perhaps a smattering of "I like eye candy" here and there.

Those that do not view their character as themselves tend to be all over the place: elves, orcs, cats, three-toed sloths. But those that view their characters as themselves in a new world will of course gravitate towards races that are mostly human-like. With the Elder Scrolls, we have some variety in our humans, but the most noticeable divide between them physically, is that the Redguards are black skinned. Given that the stereotypical "gamer" is a teenage/young advlt white male, it's really no surprise to me to see Redguards go under-appreciated in such a poll.

I do not believe however that Redguards are in any need of a visual or lore overhaul. They have a rich history and a unique style of religious views. And as mentioned, they are statistically a powerful race. Adrenaline Rush has always been one of my favorite racial abilities and my MW Redguard was a total badass. I couldn't get into them in Oblivion though... it looked like Bethesda made their faces crooked to me :confused:

Suffice it to say, Redguards are going to be fine, and those that can appreciate them, will use them.

Im white... but the BEST npc of all time ever ever.... is raul the mexican ghoul from fallout new vegas. If you could make an entire race based on him and slap it into elder scrolls as a playable undead race.... It would be EPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, Redguards come out as my third favorite race! I just plan on making a nord first, as I want to be as close to what I perceive as the closest race to the northmen in Warhammer fantasy. Heck, I eventually want to make Cyrus looking character, and kick even more dragon ass!

Also, I want redguards to have brown skin again. If I remember right, they were only red in Oblivion, and it wasn't a very good shade of red. I most definitely prefer the skin color from MW and DF.
Also,
Cyrus is the biggest BA in all of TES. He even made Vivec [NUMMIT] his panties.

I think of redguards being more like agile warriors, compared to bulky nords, or orcs. Besides muscles don't translate to pure power. In terms of culture, i think they have one of the coolest in the es universe.

Agreed. Whereas Nords and Orcs are all about bulk, huge muscles, and smashing enemy heads into a fine paste; Redguards are all about stamina, lean-muscle, and running three quarters of a mile before leaping in the air and stabbing a guy in the throat.

they have to take a back seat to the altmer at least they had a game about them the altmer always get screwed