this thread belongs at the nexus, or gamespot pc forum. Im a pc player, but im not sitting here blaming another platform's crowd.

man i could only imagine the bad reception a game like thief would get in todays day in age

It is part of the reason I largely abandoned the platform ages ago. Well, that and the lack of games I actually care about.

The only problem is that we, and Bethesda, end up relying on the modding community to make the game better - or to make it what it should have been. We paid Bethesda for this, not the modding community. I'm not knocking what the modding community does. A heavily modded Oblivion is absolutely amazing.

The modding community should be adding tweaks, new content to the game. Not fixing it.

Uldred

Being passionate is often mistaken for aggression. Though I admit I call out direct groups of people. I cannot cover all the grey area in the black and white things I am speaking of.

Xbox crowd has a worse reputation tbh. Why? because of CoD and Halo.. the people who say the N or F word every 5 seconds and the constant blatantly crude and vulgar rage. It exists everywhere but from personal experience I see it far more on consoles due to the fact most mainstream/casuals own consoles and do not keep up with the cost of upgrading their PCs often.

Even I admit a console is better bang for your buck pure gaming wise due to upkeep. I do however prefer PC gaming for the ability to play the highest graphics and more complex games due to controls.

If you want to talk why the PC crowd has a bad wrap it's because a lot of us are aggressive towards the general/casual gamer public. We who scream are heard over the people who speak softly, just like in most things.

Since when have RPG's ever been about character generation? It's always been about character DEVELOPMENT, which Skyrim happens to do extremely well.

Go back to Morrrowind

You paid Bethesda for Skyrim, you got Skyrim. They will fix the major bugs but you are unhappy with design choices. You bought the hype, not the game.
Modders will hopefully provide things that people wanted.

seriously getting tired of bowing to peoples wisdom dammit! :bowdown:

its a superior rpg in my mind.

and will remain so, no matter how many haters try and force me to think otherwise.

No it wasn't. It was a main point of offense for me and others at the time that Morrowind's interface was a prime example of a modern PC interface, with resizable and dragable windows, while Oblivions was so bad. Oblivion's UI has huge icons and a huge font, same as all console interfaces, so very little information is on the screen at once. Nearly every game these days has an interface that is designed singularly to be operated by a controller and with elements that are readable/recognizable at the larger distance people sit from the TV than their PC monitor.

The philosophy is that everything that can be operated with a controller can be operated with a mouse. Design for the consoles and just ask the PC gamers to click with their mouse on an icon that says "Tab". Feels like you're in a hall of mirrors don't it?

Try remapping E to middle mouse button. Oops now you can't pick up any books. Well it looks like that is addressed in the current patch.

i love all teh people in here snippeting the xbox bash and using that as a basis for invalidating OP's claims lol. grow up and pay attention.

this game was created for consoles (yes xbox mainly) which is a outdated and obsolete system. therefore the game has to operate within those limitations.

combine that with a poor port to bethesdas original fanbase (pc users) and you get a mess.

skyrim is fun, but its still a bad console port of something so outdated it shouldve been scrapped years ago.

however to the main title, skyrim isnt exactly a POOR rpg, its just not like traditional rpgs. its minimalist rpg, no big stats or number crunching, they made imo a great initial talent and progression systems taht actually PUNISHES min/maxing to a degree instead of role playing.

however i do think they went too minimalist so your char just feels generalized.

now as for what he means by xbox crowd...he means the isntant gratification, achievement [censored], braggards that dont have the mental fortitude to play a game that doesnt spoonfeed them. and yes, xbox (microsoft) were the pioneers in influencing and creating this crowd...it exists even if you dont want to believe it. and its hurting the gaming community from a creative standpoint.

RPG's have always been about character generation and development, not one OR the other... since the early days of pnp on which the genre is based.

Skyrim does half of this moderately well, if you ignore trying to develop any sort of destruction type mage... among other play-styles

I see a lot of console users getting their panties in a wad in this thread, as well as a lot of a__hole pc users calling console users idiots... this all seems unnecessary.

The truth is the game is simplified to appease the console controls and reach a broader market, and in my opinion suffers for it.

What he means is that when TES games came out, they were at the leading edge of graphics. Skyrim ISN'T because it was built to be playable on consoles. (And no, that's not the console gamers fault). If they built it for PCs, they could have at least stepped up to DX10, or even DX11; made use of more Ram; pushed the graphics cards more, rather than rely on the CPU more (as the consoles don't really have a GPU).

Uldred

Well I speak from one side of the argument and I cannot lie that my passion lies in the fact that the public spread of the gaming culture becoming part of peoples everyday lives for tom sally and little billy is making things worse for the people who have always been gamers and who had a old school notion to what a gamer is/was. I am bias and to say I was not is a huge lie. I am old school and so I tend to carry my old beliefs forward. It makes me mad when I hear my younger friends say I never played super nintendo ect. I want my kids to start from the basics and grow from that.

I see gaming as a culture and life-style, its my passion and always will be. I want to keep the history and roots of gaming alive. I do not want a lot of the crap now being what is remembered about gaming over the original roots of Atari, Pong, Mario etc.

Take me with a grain of salt, but I am also very passionate and extreme about gaming and protecting it as I feel a kinship to heritage to it and history. Its always been more than just games for me and its like seeing a rainforest being cut down for these skyscraqer games that get built over a year instead of the long time it took for a tree to grow.

Edit: My views are personal of course and developed over my life-time of being a gamer and my passion. I am sure I am wrong on many things and in a lot of cases I hope I am.

I could be inclined to agree if, in this day and age, there was a Morrowind competitor to Skyrim. But there isn't. There's only Mass Effect and Dragon Age, and those are even dumber, shallower, shorter and adhd-friendly. So I'd say, competition in mind, that Skyrim is hands down the best RPG on the market. As for simply being a good game, noone can argue Skyrim being a bad game with a straight face. And for me, it's the second best game ever (after Syberia) and probably still the second best RPG, after Morrowind.



This. Sooo much this!

'Roid Powered Guido

Technological limitations have no bearing on the quality of a game.

When will PC gamers realize this?

When people who play on consoles don't play older games and say wow this is crap graphics derp wow this svcks etc. I hear that comment just as much as the comment from PC gamers towards xbox etc.

Having played TES I, TES II, TES III, TES IV, Battlespire, Redguard, I've followed the series and thus, bought the game. The design choices svck. Yes the modders will fix things, but it shouldn't be up to them to make the game playable, which in some cases they are doing this minute while Bethesda fixes dead guests at weddings.

The common bugs associated with Bethesda are one thing. It's something those of us that know Bethesda's game expect.

Uldred

I agree. I dont like much of Skyrim as opposed to other TES games but this is what I think:

Modded Morrowind>Shivering Isles>Modded Skyrim>Modded Oblivion>Vanilla Oblivion>Vanilla Morrowind>Vanilla Skyrim>Everything else

only if you consider technological limitations to be silly things like graphics.

its much more then that.

when will non technological people learn that?

i mean really, its the same reason i hate the iphone, it just spoon feeds masses things they dont even have to understand resulting in a ignorant group of people.

consoles limit far more then graphics friend.

For the record I think the game is fine. It allows you to create a normal looking character and experience a large, impressive landscape. Isn't that what most people want? To immerse themselves in an exciting environment? I don't think most people would answer "What do you want most from an RPG?" with "To spend several hours mired in the tedium of character creation before stepping into a world in which only 10% of that tedium is ever actually displayed or utilized in a useful way. But hey, at least I feel individual."

This. And my bad ass armor and swords.

And what about what I have stated? I owned a Genesis when I was a kid, like right when it came out. I know that everybody didn't own one. But I grew up in a heavy video game family. My dad use to play Quake on the PC, but also the N64.

Are you saying that everyone who plays a console is the casual gamer? Because that seems to be everyone's argument.

Console = casual gamer

Aren't there exception? Like the people I have stated, who have grown up since very very early childhood with the earliest of console systems.



Well when thinking about when they were trying to make the UI "easier" for console players the way Skyrim tried, I could say Oblivion was a good compromise for the most part. But you're right. Morrowind's UI was the better of the three. But at the same time, if trying to go for both mainstream and casual, hardcoe console, and PC Oblivion's was the best by far from Skyrim's. We can at least agree to that?