no no i agree i got into the series with bad company and went back and tried some of the classics bf3...fail....cod competition ?! total b s why make a game soley to compete with another didnt anyone learn from two worlds ? tf but yeah i blame microsoft and sony for not updating hardware i means come on how many redesigns have both consoles had....sigh :intergalactic: planetary

I would care

Well, from a business POV, they are selling like $15 worth of tech for like what $200?
Also I appreciate that you took the time and played the classics, Bad Company is an abortion of battlefield.

And you define the typical PC gamer. Oh, the irony.

It's not dead because of the consoles, your hate is misplaced. It's dead because someone wanted more money and made the game to appeal to more people than it's original audience. Consoles were a means to an end, had they not existed the same would have happened to attract more gamers from other subsections of the PC gaming market.

his hate of bf3 is understandable though that was honestly made just to compete mw3 i wasnt apart of bf original audience but that game blows

I have to agree with most of what Foehammer has said.

The fact is you see far more casual/every day Joes who game on an Xbox and not a PC. There are real Gamers on console/PC, personally I have been everywhere and I always will be.

Issue numero uno is that the consoles are mainstream and almost every family has one (not literally) its started to become a staple in house holds. Do the families who buy Kung Fu Panda the game know the best quality? No. Do they/Casuals often make up a majority of the dollar? Yes.

hardcoe/Lifer Gamers are pretty much the 1% and gamer is far to broad of a term now. It makes me angry that the culture is being infested. It has been declining in general for games quality/quantity wise for your dollar. You can prove me wrong with a few examples if you want but I will just have to list several bad things.

I try not to be bias but honestly from playing 90% of any game on Xbox over Xbox live I see more casuals then I do "Real Gamers" by far.

But that is up to each persons own definition of the word. What I am saying is that 1% (Real Gamers) loses out to the 99% (Casual) and that is just for the 99/1% stuff going around not literally the numbers I would say. The lines are blurry now when they used to not be, gaming is becoming a general part of everyday life. This has ups, but I mostly see the downs.

why couldnt they have just combined the thing that made the older games great...and THEN add in new features somtimes building a new game from the ground up with too many new ideas just doesnt work for everyone but as i referenced mass effect 3 people equals 6 opinions :jammasterjay:

You're a poor RPG!

... that's exactly what Skyrim is.

Pure gold.

On topic:

I agree with what you said about character developement. Your conclusions are a little off, though.

But they could have combined what they learned in Oblivion and Fallout and brought it into Skyrim. True, Skyrim has better customization than Oblivion. But it is watered down and lackluster. Even Dragon Age Origins had more options when it comes to customization than Skryim does.

How does the complexity or cost of the platform you play on have any effect on the type of games that you like to play?

If you want to play a complex, stats driven RPG, then there are other games out there that have that. If you want to play a game that has a big detailed world to explore, then there are other games out there that have that. Skyrim is neither of those, it's a mixture of them.

which is the downside to the industry having gotten so big (halo,mw,wow,svr,ea in general etc) just glad it hasnt destroyed ratchet and clank for me

it's good for those who pirated this game. They dont feel bad - obviously the game was made for consoles, so they should pay...

Ah, another PC elitist. All console gamers are dumb and all PC gamers are smart and so deserve better.

oh sweet(god, the elitism and outright ignorance of this thread is astounding....

This pretty much gives me all license and privilege to call you a kid.

Because crying "sell out!" is the classic call of the clueless who don't live in the real world yet.

Selling out means compromising on your personal ideals for the sake of making more money.

I do not recall Bethesda ever saying that it was their personal ideal to be PC only or be completely centered on the PC (in spite of the fact that it's the PC that gets the most in options, I know of no other company that gives as much freedom to modify its content right out of the box as Bethesda does).

It seems it's your personal ideal that they cater only to the PC crowd, and you're butthurt that they apparently didn't get the memo about how you dictated the company should act.

I'm sorry that someone else's business doesn't follow your personal ideals. Welcome to the real world.

Not really. Not anymore.

For me it's about creating a character, not pretending that "I" am someone else. My character is never me (hell I play female character's more than not) and I never play in first person. I'm watching a movie where I get a say so in the character's creation, personality and choices.

Like you said, RPG means different things to different people.

Possibly, I guess the XBox thing gets linked to the changes that were made to Oblivion, I think though that the reason Morrowind (that only got relesed on Xbox much later) was'nt dumbed down was because the extra people it would appeal to was minimal set against the market it had to lose to which the game originally appealed. I guess I wish someone would come forward to do a more traditional RPG allowing you to create an individual character and continue crafting your charater in little ways through the game. Morrowind had this to some extent but unfortunately its fight scenes were not what all that great which is where Oblivion tended to do better. I just guess I expected for games after Morrowind to get more in depth with charater generation stuff you do in the game not less. Yes the game is fun enough to play for a while but it more just of you go now an never minf the intricasies that much. I mean its not appalling bad that I would not want to play (though in parts such as the menu system it is appalling) it just that it could be so much more enjoyable to traditional RPG fans.

Oh one final grip have you noticed how two handed weapons do twice as much damage now as one handed and that a shield is more of a hinderance in Skyrim where in Oblivion sword and shielf seemed a good choice. Just seems two handed weapons are overcompensated now in Skyrim making them the choice to go with.

hm another great point damn my poor brain cant keep up this is why i tend to stay nuetral in these cases but hey the console vs pc wars have been going for years it seems just how it is

I agree his hate is understandable, but as I said misplaced. The hardware in question has little to do with the direction of games nowadays, it's all about aquiring the largest audience, even if they don't stay for long a box sale is a box sale.

There are just as many casual gamers coming into the PC market, there are numerous games with the audiences described here as being console only. I have been around since the early days of gaming when 8 colours was a major selling point and have watched gaming become embraced as mainstream instead of treated as a dirty hobby akin to watching pormography. This has seen gaming blossom and many games, and innovations around now, woulnd't be but for the casual players people bemoan.
PC gaming has increased dramatically too. PCs are no longer as expensive as they once were and are much more common to find in a home.
As much as people want to try and deny it gaming has always had it's undesirables regardless of platform the only difference is there are more of them now ONLY because there are more gamers in total.

ironic considering the attention to dual weilding no?

Think you'll find that more people have PCs in their homes than consoles. So what was that point about affording something superior about? :whistling: