I think a lot of people get change confused with simplification. This game sounds extremely intricate to me, far more complex than any other game Bethesda has ever made, so tell me - what about Skyrim is so simple?

"Change" can also be "Simplification". It was the case in Oblivion and if the mistakes are corrected it will be the same in Skyrim. You ask what about Skyrim is simple, here are some things that might make it so:

-Quest Compass
-Removal of Guild Requirements
-Mini Games like Lock Picking

That's just a few and there are many more, if I had the time to come up with them. I haven't played Oblivion in well over 2 years so I can't come up with any more at the moment.

In any case, "Change" isn't always good.

"Change" can also be "Simplification". It was the case in Oblivion and if the mistakes are corrected it will be the same in Skyrim. You ask what about Skyrim is simple, here are some things that might make it so:

-Quest Compass
-Removal of Guild Requirements
-Mini Games like Lock Picking

That's just a few and there are many more, if I had the time to come up with them. I haven't played Oblivion in well over 2 years so I can't come up with any more at the moment.

In any case, "Change" isn't always good.

Ok, let's see:

Skyrim allows you to craft armor and weapons, neither Morrowind nor Oblivion has that. No, enchanting is NOT crafting.
Skyrim allows you to cast spells while striking with a sword, cast two different spells simultaneously or two-hand cast a spell for a more powerful effect. Morrowind allowed neither.
Skyrim has perks and special combat moves, Morrowind did not.
Skyrim has finishing moves, Morrowind and Oblivion did not.
Skyrim movement and model animations are much more realistic than Oblivion, let alone the crap that Morrowind had.
Skyrim bows are actually useful, Morrowind and Oblivion ranged weapons were almost useless at higher levels.
Skyrim stealth has "alert" state and is more tactical. Morrowind stealth was [censored].
Skyrim has DRAGONS, Morrwind had Cliff Racers that WERE INCREDIBLY ANNOYING!!!
Skyrim has a much better scaling system than both Oblivion and Morrowind.
Skyrim towns are their own ecosystems, which is totally new and improved from Oblivion and earlier.
Skyrim and Oblivion are fully voiced, Morrowind is not.
Skyrim has dynamic weather and snowfall, which wasn't even possible to do at the time of Morrowind (or even Oblivion, afaik).
Skyrim has a better leveling system. Morrowind and Oblivion both followed the skill-based logic, but both were a bit awkward with Major/Minor skills.
Skyrim quests and general world interaction is a refined form of Radiant AI that breathes even more life into the game than Oblivion did. Morrowind didn't even have that kind of AI, it was all scripted events.

Will this suffice, or should I go on? Don't get me wrong, Morrowind was great at the time it came out, but saying that Skyrim is a simplification of Morrowind just because the devs take out a few things here and there and replace them with something different (and maybe far better)... well, it's such a blatant exaggeration that you could almost be mistaken for trolling.


Do you even realize how many spells that is, if implemented the right way with scaling and whatnot? 80 spells could potentially be a huge amount, because now Bethesda no longer have to create 5 different spells for the exact same effect (as opposed to Oblivion and Morrowind), because of how spells can be scaled and cast in various ways for a number of outcomes. Tbh, I think that's much better than, like, creating 100 copies of the exact same weapon in Sacred and advertice that you got "100 different weapons".

I have heard no word on the removal of requirments in guilds or the presence of mini-games. Maybe I missed something, where did this information come from? Also, the compass isn't anything new, and while I would rather go without it I am over it at this point. But really, three things, and two of them I am not even sure of.... Is that all? Because if those are the cons, the list of pros towers over it.

Simplification is a good thing:

Instead of this:
http://assail.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/old-computer-image.jpg
We have this now:
http://81.5.185.34/tabletpcplace/images/winhec_tabletpc2_01.jpg

I love it!

I have heard no word on the removal of requirments in guilds or the presence of mini-games. Maybe I missed something, where did this information come from? Also, the compass isn't anything new, and while I would rather go without it I am over it at this point. But really, three things, and two of them I am not even sure of.... Is that all? Because if those are the cons, the list of pros towers over it.

Who else is afraid of Skyrim being too simple, game mechanics not graphic/animation. I LOVED Morrowind because of how complex it was with its crafting system and vast amount of items and unique items, etc. I also LOVED Oblivion but felt some things were downgraded such as the armor system where shoulders/pauldrons were no longer a standalone item along with the clothes which only came in one full set as one item plus couldn't be worn underneath your armor (robes couldn't be worn over armor) and other things of that nature.

Thank almighty that Todd isn't one Peter Molyneux who'd like to manifest his divine creation powers by making movies, and selling them to people as games.

I'm not worried too much. But if you look at Dragon Age 2's forums right now...there is a pissed off fanbase (some people not all) because of the simplification of that IP. Hopefully Bethesda is taking notice and acts accordingly.

I think that Skyrim is being enhanced with simplicity. It seems to be getting rid of a lot of the redundancy.

Thats a short list he made and the examples are from Oblivion.

There is a list, just as long as your pros, of things that are wrong with Oblivion. If I were to play the game again I could come up with them. My thing is if those things from Oblivion aren't fixed in Skyrim than Skyrim will be just as simplied, if not more, than Oblivion.

You are right, we don't know alot about Skyrim at the moment and that is why I said to start with that we are going to have to wait and see. Giving what they did do Oblivion, I'm skeptical that Skyrim will be any different.

Isn't new tech about making things simpler? I mean i wouldn't take things out of the game to make it simpler... But maybe by projecting a difficult part in a simpler way....

As a little sidenote, one might also want to ask oneself - is simplification necessarily a bad thing?

Who else is afraid of Skyrim being too simple, game mechanics not graphic/animation. I LOVED Morrowind because of how complex it was with its crafting system and vast amount of items and unique items, etc. I also LOVED Oblivion but felt some things were downgraded such as the armor system where shoulders/pauldrons were no longer a standalone item along with the clothes which only came in one full set as one item plus couldn't be worn underneath your armor (robes couldn't be worn over armor) and other things of that nature. But as I have heard and read that spell-crafting is basically nixed, only a set of about 80 spells available to the player in Skyrim?? I hope this has changed because I absolutely loved spell-crafting and all the crafting systems because of their complexity and infinite possibilities. Basically my main concern is Bethesda trying to over-simplify Skyrim in some areas, areas which I deem a huge part of Elderscrolls and part of what made it so awesome. Anybody else share some of the same thoughts?

Who else is afraid of Skyrim being too simple, game mechanics not graphic/animation. I LOVED Morrowind because of how complex it was with its crafting system and vast amount of items and unique items, etc. I also LOVED Oblivion but felt some things were downgraded such as the armor system where shoulders/pauldrons were no longer a standalone item along with the clothes which only came in one full set as one item plus couldn't be worn underneath your armor (robes couldn't be worn over armor) and other things of that nature. But as I have heard and read that spell-crafting is basically nixed, only a set of about 80 spells available to the player in Skyrim?? I hope this has changed because I absolutely loved spell-crafting and all the crafting systems because of their complexity and infinite possibilities. Basically my main concern is Bethesda trying to over-simplify Skyrim in some areas, areas which I deem a huge part of Elderscrolls and part of what made it so awesome. Anybody else share some of the same thoughts?

I would love for it to be more complex, like Daggerfall and Morrowind. However, I don't think it will. Too many media butt kissers gave Oblivion way to high of ratings and because of that I don't think Todd nor anyone else on the Dev Team realize what they did to Oblivion and how the RPG aspect was removed from it for the most part. There is talk of removing spell making, if that isn't simplifying the game even more than what is?

Only playing the game will tell, but I'm not holding my breath for any more complex RPG's coming from Bethesda and that is a damn shame.

Skyrim allows you to craft armor and weapons, neither Morrowind nor Oblivion has that. No, enchanting is NOT crafting.
Oblivion has it in Shivering Isles, thats amber and madness armors.
About crafting in Morrowind we can built own house not just buy it.
Well the Shivering Isle's "crafting was more like a trade than anything else. About Morrowind... I never got far enough to actually deal with house lol

Skyrim has perks and special combat moves, Morrowind did not.
Morrowind has different damage values for different strikes
How the hell does that make up for perks? It never made a single difference in character development, and I won't repeat it again, MW's combat was a REALLY boring experience (spam the attack button until something is FINALLY hit)

Skyrim has finishing moves, Morrowind and Oblivion did not.
Morrowind has Death and Knockdown animation, Oblivion have only stupid ragdoll
Oblivion tried to make it more realistic. You think everyone falls the same way when they fall? And besides, it looked bad because OB's physics engine wasn't exactly what I'd qualify as "fine tuned"

Skyrim bows are actually useful, Morrowind and Oblivion ranged weapons were almost useless at higher levels.
Problem of balance no of weapons, still morrowind has more options for marksman character not only bow for all.
But that's EXACTLY the balance problem that's adresses here. If you wanted to make a deadly archer in MW or OB, you either had to slide the difficulty all the way down, or mod it. Now that's literally [censored] as archer usually kill in one hit anyways, or at least wound deeply

Skyrim has DRAGONS, Morrwind had Cliff Racers that WERE INCREDIBLY ANNOYING!!!
Oblivion also has one Dragon, and WERE INCREDIBLY ANNOYING!!! adoring fan.
Guess what? in Oblivion it was FUN killing the adoring fan! and if you didn't want him, you just had to tell him to bug off. Could you do that with cliffracers? NO!
Also... I doubt the one in OB could have been really qualified as a dragon. it lloked more like a mix between a cliff racer and a phoenix to be honest

Skyrim has a better leveling system. Morrowind and Oblivion both followed the skill-based logic, but both were a bit awkward with Major/Minor skills.
Before we test it in game I will doubt about improvements, since there is no any evidence about attributes still in game, NPC without class will be also, there is no evidence about birth signs or powers.
Well, NPCs without classes doesn't mean they'll all act the same. They'll probably have a few archetypes when making the AI of humanoid enemies, so that doesn't worry me. You won't always fight the same human opponent

Do you even realize how many spells that is, if implemented the right way with scaling and whatnot? 80 spells could potentially be a huge amount, because now Bethesda no longer have to create 5 different spells for the exact same effect (as opposed to Oblivion and Morrowind), because of how spells can be scaled and cast in various ways for a number of outcomes. Tbh, I think that's much better than, like, creating 100 copies of the exact same weapon in Sacred and advertice that you got "100 different weapons".

Static uneditable hardcoded magic system even if will provide unique spells looks worse then opened for edits classical magical system with script effects.
Dynamic magic system thats what will eliminate spell cluttering and make all premade spells truly unique will be nice to see along with ability create new spells in CS.
There's NOTHING telling us they'll be static. They'll probably level with you, which is awesome.

Well the Shivering Isle's "crafting was more like a trade than anything else. About Morrowind... I never got far enough to actually deal with house lol

How the hell does that make up for perks? It never made a single difference in character development, and I won't repeat it again, MW's combat was a REALLY boring experience (spam the attack button until something is FINALLY hit)

Oblivion tried to make it more realistic. You think everyone falls the same way when they fall? And besides, it looked bad because OB's physics engine wasn't exactly what I'd qualify as "fine tuned"

But that's EXACTLY the balance problem that's adresses here. If you wanted to make a deadly archer in MW or OB, you either had to slide the difficulty all the way down, or mod it. Now that's literally [censored] as archer usually kill in one hit anyways, or at least wound deeply

There's NOTHING telling us they'll be static. They'll probably level with you, which is awesome.

Skyrim allows you to craft armor and weapons, neither Morrowind nor Oblivion has that. No, enchanting is NOT crafting.
Oblivion has it in Shivering Isles, thats amber and madness armors.
About crafting in Morrowind we can built own house not just buy it.

Skyrim allows you to cast spells while striking with a sword, cast two different spells simultaneously or two-hand cast a spell for a more powerful effect. Morrowind allowed neither.
Morrowind allow cast spells added by enchant, Oblivion allow use spells and sword and shield, in all way spellmaking add more option then using two static spells in one time, besides we can create awesome spells with scripts thats work just like this spells in Skyrim, magic system must be opened for modding or have dynamic implementation in game.

Skyrim has perks and special combat moves, Morrowind did not.
Morrowind has different damage values for different strikes

Skyrim has finishing moves, Morrowind and Oblivion did not.
Morrowind has Death and Knockdown animation, Oblivion have only stupid ragdoll

Skyrim movement and model animations are much more realistic than Oblivion, let alone the crap that Morrowind had.
Look at calendar there is 2011 year animation will be better then in 9 years and 5 years ago, besides for 2002 Morrowind has good animation.

Skyrim bows are actually useful, Morrowind and Oblivion ranged weapons were almost useless at higher levels.
Problem of balance no of weapons, still morrowind has more options for marksman character not only bow for all.

Skyrim stealth has "alert" state and is more tactical. Morrowind stealth was [censored].
Yes that is, Oblivion have much improvements in stealth

Skyrim has DRAGONS, Morrwind had Cliff Racers that WERE INCREDIBLY ANNOYING!!!
Oblivion also has one Dragon, and WERE INCREDIBLY ANNOYING!!! adoring fan.

Skyrim has a much better scaling system than both Oblivion and Morrowind.
Yes, yes before I see how better it in game thats not argument

Skyrim towns are their own ecosystems, which is totally new and improved from Oblivion and earlier.
Thats sounds awesome

Skyrim and Oblivion are fully voiced, Morrowind is not.
Morrowind have large and informative dialogues thats lack Oblivion, Oblivion has shared voice for races Morrowind didn't, voice changes in Oblivion since one NPC can have several voice actors, but yes voice acting is nice improvement in Oblivion.

Skyrim has dynamic weather and snowfall, which wasn't even possible to do at the time of Morrowind (or even Oblivion, afaik).
If rain still comes trough solid objects thats system is flawed, but how about other things like waves in sea and at shore?

Skyrim has a better leveling system. Morrowind and Oblivion both followed the skill-based logic, but both were a bit awkward with Major/Minor skills.
Before we test it in game I will doubt about improvements, since there is no any evidence about attributes still in game, NPC without class will be also, there is no evidence about birth signs or powers.

Skyrim quests and general world interaction is a refined form of Radiant AI that breathes even more life into the game than Oblivion did. Morrowind didn't even have that kind of AI, it was all scripted events.
Thats sounds awesome and I really want to see how it in game.

Will this suffice, or should I go on? Don't get me wrong, Morrowind was great at the time it came out, but saying that Skyrim is a simplification of Morrowind just because the devs take out a few things here and there and replace them with something different (and maybe far better)... well, it's such a blatant exaggeration that you could almost be mistaken for trolling.
All TES games have advantages and disadvantages thats awesome that we can make game even better with mods, great to see thats developers take in account previous flaws and take some inspirations from community mods.

Do you even realize how many spells that is, if implemented the right way with scaling and whatnot? 80 spells could potentially be a huge amount, because now Bethesda no longer have to create 5 different spells for the exact same effect (as opposed to Oblivion and Morrowind), because of how spells can be scaled and cast in various ways for a number of outcomes. Tbh, I think that's much better than, like, creating 100 copies of the exact same weapon in Sacred and advertice that you got "100 different weapons".

Static uneditable hardcoded magic system even if will provide unique spells looks worse then opened for edits classical magical system with script effects.
Dynamic magic system thats what will eliminate spell cluttering and make all premade spells truly unique will be nice to see along with ability create new spells in CS.

Dynamic magic system thats what will eliminate spell cluttering and make all premade spells truly unique will be nice to see along with ability create new spells in CS.