Well, I like this new perk system in Skyrim and everything, but I have an issue with few things.
And please read the OP before posting a comment and try to keep open mind while reading this... and don't be scared of it because it has lot of words in it!

1 - Some perks are simply silly and should be removed/replaced:
Example of this are perks like Misdirection and Perfect Touch.
I still have to check how do they work exactly, but if description is right, you can pickpocket equipped weapons even while drawn, and can pickpocket clothes and armor equipped form a target.
If that is true, then I advise you people to try and to the same and you'll understand that those perks are equally silly as water jumping you get from Acrobatics in Oblivion.

2 - There are no spears, throwing weapons, crossbows as weapons, and there are not Unarmored, Unarmed, Athletics and Acrobatics skills:
While I do understand to some point that there are no spears and crossbows (new weapons, new animations and stuff), I still don't understand why unarmed combat doesn't have it's perks!
And no, I don't want to hear about Fits of Steel perk!
Most players who want to use unarmed combat are players who want to make monk-like characters, and monk-like characters don't need to put steel on their fits since their fits are made of steel already (not to mention how stupid it is)!
And please don't start saying that it's fine since it's silly to see a dragon get killed by fists and such, since you people obviously don't know anything about TES lore.
Also, I really think it's a shame that there are no throwing weapons since with this new combat style (where you can equip a weapon/spell in each hand) could really make great use of having throwing weapons and open a whole new window to creating new characters.
Similar with Unarmored, Athletics and Acrobatics - by removing them, lot of character creating possibilities have been removed.


Anyway, after some thinking, I came up with the idea you can see below.
I will also make some other changes, I didn't mention above, but you'll see what they are.
To be honest, my perfect vision of skill system in TES is actually much different (and I personally think better), but suggesting it would simply demand too big of a change, so it's not an option.
To the skills!

-Unarmed:


-Spears:


-Crossbows/Throwing Weapons:


-Unarmored/Athletics/Acrobatics:


Now, that's about skills... for now.
Here are some ideas about certain perks I have an issue with.

-Warmaster/Paralyzing/Bullseye Strike/Deep Freeze:


-Golden Touch/Treasure Hunter:


-Misdirection/Perfect Touch:


Well, that's all for now.
Tell me what do you think and in case you have an idea, feel free to share it.
All constructive criticism is more than welcome!

Discuss!

Spears need new animations.

So unless Obsidian will allow their animations to be ported over, though it would be a multitude of headaches to make it look right, it aint happening.

Crossbows are in the game, look at the Dwemer machines, wouldn't take much to change it, though, it might need new animations itself.

Acrobatics and athletics, both passive skills (jump up to level up, walk to level up...no), both completely pointless.

Sorry but the removal of those skills was completely needed, if they do make a new engine utilizing special movements (climbing, ceilling hanging etc) then it can come back, currently the engine would just blow up.

Other than that, lockpicking needs some serious thought, more useful perks for one.

Then the usual problems with combat balance, but i wont go into it.

Unarmed should get its own tree, there is very little overlap between unarmed and weapon fighting.

It needs a damage increasing perk with increments, a perk which grants a KO chance, a perk which allows a choke sneak attack, the iron fist perk from heavy armour and a perk which increases the speed of fist attacks.

Also, and this is the most important thing, it needs the ability to BLOCK.

So what they need new animations?
It can be made for a DLC.


Where?
o.0


Did you even read what did I write about those skills and how I think they should be implemented in the game?


Making it happen in real time and with broken lockpicks making noise, like I said, would actually help a lot.


Yeah, I also have lot of issues with the combat.
Didn't want to list them here since it would turn this thread into a Chinese-wall-o-text. >_>



True, but that would cause more complications than solutions.
Actually, each weapon should have it's own tree since fighting with, let's say, dagger and mace is totally different thing.
Still, an overhaul that big should be saved for next TES imo.


It does NOT need Fists of Steel perk! >_>
Choke sneak attack could be a sneak finisher (no perk needed), and Furious Strikes already gives pretty damn good disabling effect.


True, but that falls in combat department.
Something I don't wish to avoid if possible in this thread due to the reasons stated above.

Under your plan, why are light and heavy armor merging?

I ask because 1. I think your plan is too drastic of an overhaul to ever get any consideration from Bethesda and simpler suggestions would get more consideration AND 2. If you merge those skills you just give moreincentive to wear armor

On the Dwemer Spheres,I think on their left arm and it will fire if you are in a archery dual with the machine.

Well, it's least drastic overhaul I could think of, actually.
Every single option I could think of (which is actually good and makes sense) would demand even more drastic overhauls.

I've also decided to merge those two and place them into Warrior branch since it kinda made most sense to me since all combat skills are meant for more direct combat, and that's also purpose of Light Armor.
Also, this merging is similar to Bethesda's merging of weapon skills and dividing them into One & Two-Handed Weapons.

Still, I think that being unarmored now has actually more value than before, so I don't believe that everyone will just jump and take armor only because it's easier to level it up.


Those are not crossbows a player can use. >_>

yes on adding, no on removing

This game is crap .

Perks like.. armor has 0 weight when wearing it, and others.. they should have spent at least 1 year more to develop, or more.

Still, presenting one handed weapons as different branches of the same tree does just fine; unarmed is a less damaging, but more complex system, which is why it needs its own perk tree.


Choke sneak attack should not be a finisher, but an option. The player should have the choice of killing or leaving the enemy unconscious depending on how long they hold the button.

The fists of steel perk is a welcome addition seeing as it makes sense in terms of plausibility, as well as giving a generally low-damage playstyle a bit of a damage boost.

Armor you're wearing no longer encumbers you, because you've learned all the tricks of adjusting the straps and moving correctly with it, that it becomes effectively "weightless" in it's effect on your activities.

(Kind of like the difference between a hiking backpack that's just hanging off your shoulders; and one that's properly adjusted, has all the extra weight-bearing straps put on correctly, and that you've learned the proper balance for. Yes, it still "weighs" something. But it's encumberance/bulk is greatly reduced. )

"Weight" in RPGs frequently also includes an aspect of bulk & encumberance - since you really can't do it in any way other than abstract..... coming up with a system that took into account that a 50lb bag is differently encumbering in various conditions (held in your arms in front of you, slung over one shoulder, strapped to your back, etc) would be ludicrously complex and unworkable.




...also, It's A Game.?

Wow, that helped a lot. >_>


I suggest that it get's reduced only by 50% since that's somewhat reasonable.


Not in TES.
Check the lore and you'll see that some people actually punch trough tick steel armor with their bare fits.


No, that perk makes no sense since:
A - It's in totally different skill tree.
B - Does NOT fit unarmed combat style at all (especially for TES).

Non-armor hand wraps should have enchantments which give boosts to Unarmored.


All that still doesn't excuse TOTAL removal of slow and weight.
50% is actually more than enough.
Also, there is The Steed stone suggestion for additional 50% weight and slow removal.

his.
man i want unarmed perk tree so bad.

-Unarmed:
i cant say what would rule H2H...

-Spears:

Theres one thrusting anim for dual wielding swords and the possibility that the thrusting anims from Oblivion can be used, they would function in much the same way the spear traps would no?

-Crossbows/Throwing Weapons:

on crossbows- do you notice how useful dart traps would be? or a weapon with similar functionality to staffs that would serve as a crossbow? also as stated the Dwemer spheres have Crossbows

On throwing weapons- ever notice the "bound arrow" spell? you basically shoot arrows from the palm of your hands, and yet there are no throwing weapons to speak of? pfft consider them like I as something for future use in a mod

-Unarmored/Athletics/Acrobatics:

lets make these into something useful, remember how peolpe boasted who great this would be and swore up and down how H/M/S does more than H/M/S? yeah like I said then they are just bars and nothing more. so let a combination of H/S to determine dexterity/Mobility.

I wish they could have at least allowed 1-handed perks to apply to unarmed. That would have been enough for me. Don't really care about spears, but I would love to see throwing knives and crossbows implemented. What would make them different than archery? Some ideas:

Crossbows - Faster rate of fire, less damage, same range.
Throwing Knives - More damage, less range, more often found on dead enemies. Weigh 0.1 (+0.1 per tier) each, so you can't carry an unlimited amount. Throwing knives are usually really small relative to regular knives or especially fighting daggers, so that sounds about right.
Fletching - Why oh why can't I make my own arrows?

As for magic, destruction damage needs to scale with skill like weapons do. And enchanting, I think it might be interesting to see weapons with passive enchantments or armor with active enchantments. Draw my blade and it's automatically "FLAME ON" time, or a weapon with a skill boost for that very weapon type. I know the notched pickaxe boosts my smithing, but that's about it for passives on a weapon.

Alchemy's "guess and test" method wears on you after a while, so you should be able to pay an alchemist to find out other uses of a herb you haven't unlocked. Also, Merchant gold should go back to the way it was in Oblivion. I hate having to do the "traveling merchant" bit every time I craft a bunch of junk to raise a skill.

Good luck getting a modder to do that work for you OP. Go back to Morrowind plz

wed be level 30 in a few hour if playing with athletics and acrobatics.

Except if you check the games that's never been a viable option, and shouldn't become one any time soon.


Of course fists of steel fits the unarmed combat style, are you broken?

what it doesn't fit is unARMOURED.

An unarmoured monk is not the only unarmed combat style; in fact it's the least viable in any practical situation for obvious reasons.

OHW?
After all, your hand is greatest tool and weapon of them all! :intergalactic:


What do you mean?


Yeah, but they can't be used.
Also, I never noticed Spheres use them.


Only Bound spell I used is Bound Sword, so I can't say.


That would kinda kill the idea of it being a skill one could specialize in.
Being armored would still be way superior to non-magic unarmored players.


I personally don't care about spears also, but I do understand that there are lot of people who wish them back, and that's why I am making this suggestion.
Similar with crossbows and throwing weapons - I actually don't like crossbows or bow, but think that throwing weapons are fine (not that huge fan of them ether).
But then again, I am aware that implementing them would make game more enjoyable to lots of other people and that's why I suggest that they get implemented.


Well, because of crossbow's long reload time, I always thought that it would be the best that they are made so they become sort of fantasy version of a sniper.
And yes, I do agree about throwing weapons.
I do think that there should be throwing knives and throwing starts though.


Agreed.
It could get it's own perk in Smith which will allow you to make them (that perk should also allow you to make bows and crossbows also).
It will become very important in case bolts for crossbows and throwing weapons are introduced.


I also think that there should be a way of increasing damage of Destruction.
I think it would be ideal if there was a ring which increases damage of Destruction by ~25%.
Also, I think that there should be two-handed staffs which actually improve your spells (as staffs should do).
The limitation of it would be that you can only use one spell at the time, but it would count as dual-cast plus additional bonus.


Well, there is a perk which allows you to get all the effects from the ingredient you eat.
But I disagree with gold thing.
It's much better this way since it actually makes sense and keep game somewhat balanced.
Earning gold is easy enough as it is, no need to make it even easier.
I would also prefer if they return Morrowind-like haggling.

How about you go back under your bridge?


No you wouldn't.
Did you even read the suggestion?


Bold parts are parts which are proof that your opinions don't have any value.
Good day.

Note:
Had to double-post because of quote limit.

Lol, classic cop out.

Your unwillingness to discuss something you don't like proves your thread has no value.

EDIT: yup, just read through the entire thread again, and pretty much what you do is ignore or dismiss anything people say which doesn't agree with you. Also, your insistence that unarmed should go under 1HW suggests you don't actually understand the mechanics of either.

How about you state some valid reasons yourself before telling me that I state mine?

You just give me comments which are not worth being taken seriously and is best to simply dismiss them.
Tell me, which are other classes which rely on unarmed combat except monk-like classes?
Also, what do I don't understand about unarmed mechanics?
Come on, tell me.

Why do people insist on insulting and dismissing the two greatest Pickpocket perks? Yes, I can steal the clothes off your back, and weapon out of your hand. That's because I'm that good!.

The "Impossible Thief" is a long-documented character archtype in fiction. In fact, stealing clothing is weaksauce compared to say, stealing the Moon, its orbits, and Elven Arrogance.

As far as heavy armor mastery equalling being completely unencumbered: That's likewise a part of the lore. Please read Hallgard's tale

Hand-to-hand should be governed by 1-handed, for the same reason swords and maces use the same skill. The reason heavy armor boosts H2H is because Hand-to-hand combat in TES is not bare-fisted-monk battle with stupid near-acrobatic attacks: It's fist-flinging, with added mass to fists causing them to deal more damage.

If you base all your positions on "because it makes sense" you're just doomed to a troll fest. That's why politics is the way it is. The reason there are no spears or crossbows in the game is simple. They chose not to include them. We can speculate on why, but there are dozens of reasons... none of which can be defended by anything other than "it makes sense". Some say the extra animations would be too much to do. Others will say they're witholding stuff from us to sell us in DLC later. Others will say they'd be redundant. No one can tell us who is right, or even if anyone is. Play their game... enjoy it for what it is. Quit ruining it for yourself by focussing on what it isn't.

Sneak and pickpocket should be merged, or possibly pickpocket and lockpicking. But I like your ideas, its a shame it won't happen in this game, bethesda won't patch a change in the system like this.

Another thing I would like is the removal of perk points when you level up, and instead you get the perks when you are the right level in that skills. But make the skills much more difficult to level up, remove the stones that increase skill experience, remove the exploits to level skills fast (e.g. muffle for illusion and soul trap for conjuration), change the first perk for each skill to a requirement of 10, also start at level 0 for each skill (you still get racial bonuses though), and also have a limit to the experience you can get from one enemy (so you can't train armor on just one giant).

Then your character would be able to be able a master of all skills, but it would take a while to do, so you would still need to specialise early on.