Well said!

Particularly agreed on the voice acting bit, but I think that the roleplay element is quite dumbed down from the let go. Despite what Bethesda claims, even with perks, the loss of several skills and how you level up makes for LESS character choices, characters are more predetermined and if you want to be able to do certain things, there's no 200 ways to do it. You want to get in a faction, you got the warrior faction, mages, thief and assassin. There's a certain number of quests and if you want to be archmage for example, you necessarily need all of them and get up the ladder in a very one-dimensional way. (ie. in Morrowind it was a combination of skills and quests, and if you got your skills better fast, you could bypass some quests, well, you usually didn't need to do every quest. Different games could see the player do quests he didn't do in the last playthrough, while not doing other quests, depending which quest giver you preferred.) There were more factions that were in line with more nuanced characters, making it easier to get quests that are more in line with characters that don't fall within archetypes. And with NPC's dispositions changing more depending on your allegiances and such, it's easier to roleplay according to how the world reacts to you too. Mages could levitate, so if you had low acrobatics you could go up the slopes of the red mountain more easily. You could put traps, unlock chests with spells, and other things. You had more specialization choices within the archetypes, and more easily do things other archetypes do, if you specialized in what enabled you to do so. There's also more than I'm forgetting. The world was more complex, it reacted to you more, etc. And in that case it's easier to roleplay accordingly to what you want to be, and it's more fulfilling. Skyrim feels like it's too easy for one game to be similar to another one, seeing only minor differences between characters who specialize in combat for example. I mean, there's roleplaying in Skyrim, it's just not nearly as deep as in Morrowind or Oblivion even. The game is so detailed, but kinda shallow at the same time.

....Did he say WHY the [censored] they would aim for this?

[censored] them. It's not B's fault that they don't have any cells left for imagination in their brains.

So.... Is "no imagination" the new "just nostalgia"?

I think you touched on a valid point here. Does anyone else have the feeling that they would be able to roleplay better without voiceacting? The open world and non linearity puts restrictions on Skyrim. That makes sense. You can't do everything.

If you were given the choise:
more roleplay options and interactions but no voiceacting in dialogue or the choise beth made, aka voice acting but less roleplay options, what would you choose?

Perhaps full voice acting should be something thats kept for more linear RPG's for now? Time to start running? :bolt:

what is this
i dont even

5 years ago: Oblivion is soulless
9 years ago: Morrowind is soulless
15 years ago: Daggerfall is soulless

If I want to play pretend, then why the hell do I need a game to do so?

I want to base my character on the game, and I want the game to base itself on my character. If I'm PRETENDING the people of Whiterun view me as a hero for stopping that dragon....then what's the point?

It's very basic: I'm pretending to be a certain role, yes, but that does NOT mean I should also be expected to pretend people are treating me like my role. No no, that's not part of the deal. I fulfilled my end of the "bargain," now the game needs to fulfill it's end. If it can't do that, then again, why do I need the game at all? I'm basically just straight-up playing pretend at that point, which I can do with or without the game.

It's funny how many people are quick to defend Bethesda, basically telling them they can't improve on anything. Do you actually want the best game possible or only lick boots and accept anything that is thrown at you? Some people are basically coming up with elaborate reasons for either laziness, bad priorities and the likes. I'm not saying Skyrim is a bad game, but a game of this size clearly isn't going to be perfect, and lifting the problems only makes sense. Pretending nothing is wrong and covering up every of Bethesda's faults isn't going to make things better, on the contrary. Well, this post doesn't particularly applies to this thread and all those in here who says there's no problem about this subject, it's just that I feel commenting on something that irks me on these forums in general. Developers nowadays are good on the self-patting and even fans get into it, making sure not everything that ought to get fixed get fixed.

The problem is, he is soulless, not Skyrim. He stated so in the first few sentences, about how all he wanted to do was kill and loot and didn't give a [censored] about the story.

Seems like it. Petty excuse to cover up a valid point or concern.

No.

He said that, and that they maintain the illusion of a world by putting forks in the game.

I.
[censored].
YOU.
NOT.

AND HEY! Why waste money on a game when I can go in the woods and play warlocks and warriors (cowboys and indians, mutants and mercenaries etc.) with my friends like I did when I was a wee lad! I know how to use my imagination, but I shouldn't have to do it to this extent to enjoy a game.

Can't believe you are cowering and resorting to those typical comments. Stop quoting me for no reason unless you have something constructive to say. I don't want to deal with the ignorant.

This is beyond stupid.

First this is like a case of:
There's no full freedom and not everything does what I want them to do -> this game sux.

Which is just ridiculous.
No, not even New Vegas was able to make this case better. I found A LOT of ruins that had interesting names saying that there might be some people inside or a long explorable dungeon with its own story to tell. No, nearly all of them is one room long and has a couple of treasure and a bed in it. Yay.

These big choices did not matter that much either. Will your experience completely change if you would just randomly kill that hoker in the corner? NO, it wouldn't, that wouldn't have any consequence either. There are people complaining how little it means to go in the Legion camp and kill Ceasar, what is different if you let the President die? Apart from you're getting a different ending, absolutely nothing is different.

Second:
SHE OUTRIGHT SAID SHE JUST DOESN'T CARE!!!
What is wrong with you have you even listened to what this lady is saying?!
"I can't even keep track of all the people who have been in and out of this fort", "They come, they go, I barely notice!"
Dead bodies on the floor is like every day happening to her, you cannot save her, she doesn't want to leave, THAT'S THE BLOODY POINT!


This is why I seriously question if people here know what they're talking about when some people bring up some stupid things like this.

I remember the fort and Agnis. Once she seemed to not offer anything but a few "Who's in charge? Who cares?" sentences, my interest in her dropped to zero and I was off, not giving her a second thought.

I think the author of the piece just can't accept that, yes, even in a game, there might be people (characters) who really don't give a crap what you're doing. She takes care of the fort. People come and go but she takes care of the fort. What more is needed here? Why the desire for her to say "Oh, you're so interesting and different from the many others who come and go; please tell me about yourself and what you're doing and then I will give you a long, convoluted story and end up making a request of you so you can go off and do something and come back and feel like you've made my life better somehow"?

That said, that's the feeling I get from most of the game population. Unless it's quest related, the majority do not seem to care what I'm doing. Perhaps that was the point he was trying to make, but attaching it to one encounter wasn't very effective.

Sure you need to be imaginative to RP. Ok Agnis is absolutely over the edge crazy. Would a crazy person to this degree still not recongize two people that were just telling her what to do and ordering her around on the floor dead and naked. We aren't saying she should suddenly be sane, or say it's all an act or be a game changing interaction. The fact that there is no change in her at all though. This is the problem with other NPCs as well. Once you become a werewolf and cure yourself people still make the werewolf comments about your smile and ear hair. When the curse is gone at the very least these reactions should stop.

There was another one somebody was posting about the other day. He was the leader of the DB. He comes across a guard that tells him he use to be in the Morag Tong (sp?). He then tells you that he would be killed if the DB knew who he was, and that you could be killed just for knowing about it. The only response you could give is I'll keep your secret. You can't go and open a contract on him, or kill him right there or let him know who you are. Now go roleplay that? What your suddenly became a cold blood assassin with feelings?

My own thoughts is a hybrid system would work. Some NPCs are fully voice acted especially for main quests (but with tons of branches) and factions. But for the generic quests it would be fine if they only spoke greetings and reactions and the rest was written only. Which would allow 1) more content voiced for the main and faction quests and all the possible branches and 2) allow them to get really creative with the minor quest NPCs reactions to what a player did in the MQ and guild quests because it's just written dialogue and not spoken.

But I don't think we're ever going to get back to written dialogue for anyone but the protagonist. Even BioWare has started giving spoken dialogue to the Player Character in Dragon Age, severely limiting branching.

In New Vegas?

Dude, go kill the hoker. The Kings will friggin' shoot you. Freeside will hate you. You can no longer get Rex as a companion possibly (if you haven't already) and depending on how bad things escalate, it might ruin your relationship with the Followers of the Apocalypse. Bad relationships with them means you might miss out on implants, several skill books and a good percent of the doctors in the game. I speak from experience, because I accidently shot a person in Freeside once, ended up having to defend myself from the Kings, broke a leg in the fight, and then when I went to the Followers, they didn't want anything to do with me.

Skyrim makes no effort to make the NPCs react at all. I actually think Agnis is an example of a BETTER case of NPC reactions in Skyrim, which is actually pretty sad.

I accidentally hit her with a wayward arrow and the b!tch came at me with a knife. She seemed to have a lot of soul as she tried to cut my throat.

This guy's existential dilemma applies to real life and has nothing to do with the game. Nothing you do matters, get over it.

Wtf are you doing in the forum based on the game you so hate?

Have you played Morrowind? It doesn't have voice acting and it shows. Well, yes it has voice acting, actually people have often voiced their disappointment with Oblivion and Skyrim not having the Dunmer "chain-smoking" voice of Morrowind. Except the voice acting is present outside the actual dialogues, so it still helps the immersion. In fact, there's voice acting, but since there's no elaborate acting we don't have to sit through awkward bits or wonder why everyone speaks so damn slowly. And when you get through the same lines, you feel like you're not hearing it all if you pass it up even if you read it. Lack of voice acting means ANY concerns about its flaws related to the acting itself is gone, you're sure it doesn't bother you. And I think it's much more... seamless or smooth personally. You talk to someone, you read his line and that's fine. No "I'm waiting for you to finish your lines" and such, and you actually save time, which may seem like a weird thing to lift up.

The programming for text-only dialogues is quite easy, and it shows with the number of lines and lines of text you read in Morrowind. Only for the main quest, you get a [censored]load of detail on everything. Before doing any real quests, Caius Cosades tells you're a newb and should look for work to get some experience. Then you can ask him about jobs, and he talks about the major guilds, where they are located and all. Instead of saying the bare minimum, what is essential to know as it looks to be the case in Skyrim, he (or anyone else) will give you all the details. He wants you to talk to someone? He will tell you in which city and canton to find him, where to look for him, and by that I mean asking people around for where he may be located since there's no NPC or quest markers. Quests feel much more "fuller" and complex and satisfying. There's no "can you get this sword I left behind in a ruin for me" and then by telepathy get both the name of the ruin and where it's located. Well, the person may tell you the name of the location, but the quest-log won't even record it and you'll need to press "show on map" to know where the hell you are going. And then, how do you actually go there? Up to you. Even if the person already got there, or if he knows someone who might know how to go there easily or where the place is located. Because of course, everyone knows where what they are looking for is, there's rarely any intermediary steps for quests. If there's a huge cliff or a big river you can't cross in the middle of the "straight" path, even if there's big landmarks which could help you to get around, no one will ever tell you that. Etc. And that is not to say Morrowind was perfect, but I can't imagine if they would have put more effort into it, how compelling of a game they could have made... But of course text dialogue is a thing of the past and outdated, so we'll never see that again and we can kiss goodbye well crafted quests or compelling character interaction.

You [censored] people, I just can't get enough of you.

CRITICISM IS NOT THE SAME AS HATING SOMETHING! It probably means that they care about the franchise enough to want to see it evolve and progress.

What if we stopped at the musket?

Who needs rockets? We have cannon balls!

Forget those massive steel battle ships, wood is where its at!

Pffffff, why get a car when I can just string 500 horses together?

Dude. [censored] the internet, we have the postoffice and encyclopedias.

Television....just have your kids dance for you, that's entertainment enough!

LEAVES FOR TOILET PAPER.

Giving constructive feedback perhaps? Instead of kissing the Bethesda's asses. What would be the point of a forum anyway if it would only be to inflate Beth's ego and tell them they can do whatever they like and people won't care? Having an opinion or high standards is so overrated it seems...