Sounds like you want to play Dragon Age to me.

Don't Bioware my Skyrim!

This.

Again, lemme put it this way:

What is a more interesting roleplaying scenario: having your character react to a soldier from Faction A (which has a list of ideals and character traits) steal from an innocent civilian to further their faction's cause


OR...

Having your character react to being told that he should shop at Belethor's General Goods store.

I dunno about you, but I certainly find no pleasure in thinking "Hmmmmm, now how would Gogrum Sho-Balog react to having this store recommended to him.... :ermm: "

In that quest I was asked why I wasn't wearing the Legion armor (I sided with the SC). Then I repeated It wearing It and the guy didn't bother asking. I agree though that that is a weird quest, you should pass a speech check or something.

By the way, if you complete the MQ, bards sing a new song of Alduins defeat.

Please enlighten us: what is the unchanging core that links all the games?

Follow up question: why do the devs seem to have no interest in adding C&C when they seem so intent on altering everything else?

Skyrim is as deep and "soulfull" as you care to look into it. That old hag in the fort was clearly mad. She didnt only ignore the bandits and the people they tortured, she ignores the Soldiers as well. And if you went back into the fort after the imperials have taken over you
can find complaints written by the soldiers about the weird old woman who keeps misplacing their armor and weapons. Not bad for a character wo is just there to be killed in another quest is it?

As for the stormcloak orders: The officer asks you why you dont wear your stormcloak uniform. The player then replies something like "i ditched it for this mission." that should also explain any other stuff you are wearing.

The game is not perfect.. no game today is. But it is definetly deeper than most critics realize. You just have to be active to get involved in the story of the game. Using your imagination was mentioned a lot in this thread. And its true.
You have to fill in some gaps when the animations look weird or when there isnt as much prerecorded conversation as you would like. But there is also a whole lot of stuff that you just have to look for and find.

Finding those complaint letters from the soldiers about that old woman was much much more memorable and exciting as another "thank you for saving me, here are 50 gold".

I used to have soul, but then I took an arrow in the knee.

Thing is that the majority of the game has these gaps, thus being difficult to fill them. I started explaining such things thinking npcs had personality disorders, were ignorant, mad etc but after a point it was just not possible to do that anymore. I'm an rper, have played PnP games etc but still i just can't be immersed in the game easily because of these little things. I had absolutely no problem with that in FO3 and FNV.

HA HA HA!

Describes how I feel perfectly. It's fun, but something's missing.

such wit

Every game is if you put some effort to it.

from a bow with a soul trap enchantment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Fs6f-BzN0&feature=related

Yep that is pretty much what I thaught! He has no interest in the story or whats going on in the war, admits he was dungeon crawling for whole weekends then complains that Skyrim has no soul! Its a bit hypocritical really, I think he is the problem not the game. I bet he hasn't even read 1 Book!

I like the understated reactions of NPC's. Prefer this to having them overreact. I don't find it too much of a stretch to find them desensitized like the OP's example. Perhaps it's tough Nordic culture- be pretty silly to have them all freaking out at the sight of blood.

Reminds me of an English soccer game where I saw the most brutal and vicious foul- a kick to the head that was left extremely bloody, and the announcer very calmly stated something like "oh that was naughty" lol. Sure there are reactions that can be improved, but sometimes understating things can be endearing.

Maybe he should have used his imagination in an RPG?

At some point we have to admit that we play computer games--as opposed to table-top games--so we don't have to use our imagination. The article makes some solid points.

This argument again? Maybe the game designers should use their imagination and have NPCs that actually react to the changing world around them. Or NPCs that actually have human motivations that can be explored. Or devise scenarios where your choices actually matter so those choices mean something to the player who is trying to use their imagination to craft their character. The imagination that goes into the world and it's people is the designers job. They're the DM and we're the PCs.

Some examples of lazy writing I came across last night that could actually be great avenues for RPing that were completely missed:

I'm walking to Whiterun from the NW. I come upon a group of Thalmor walking up the road. I think to myself "Oh, this could be cool" I engage conversation and I have two choices: " Who are you?" and "What are the Thalmor". Let's look at how limited that is for a moment. I have no problems with those questions but there has to be more. Firstly, the game assumes I am somehow ignorant of the last era of history of the game by leaving me with only these questions which breaks immersion right there. Secondly, it ignores that I have already dealt with the Thalmor but leaves me no other options. Again, breaks immersion. I ask anyway. For, who are you, I get "I'm a Thalmor Justiciar" Okay. Who is the Thalmor then? "We're the rightful rulers of this continent and soon we rule over lesser races like you again" And that's it. The two grayed out questions hang there. I can't respond in any way. No new dialog opens up. In FO I'd be able to agree with. Disagree with her or tell her to F off possibly making her attack me. But no, nothing. I just take my insults and do the only thing the game allows. Exit out of dialog and kill them all. Endless missed opportunity. Not only that killing them made the guards attack me when I arrived in Whiterun. I kill three before yielding, pay my fine and it's like nothing ever happened. The Thalmor don't care. Nobody in Whiterun cares. Nothing.

Another example of a useless NPC? The racist guy in Windhelm. Why's he so vociferously racist? I dunno, can't ask him. Can't confront him. Can't tell him he's an ass. Can't do anything. What's the point? He's ripe for one to be able to confront him. Maybe brawl with him (aside for money in the inn which has nothing to do his racism) till he submits and you get a story out of him? Nope. Maybe be able to use speech to get further insights? Nope.

The game is filled with these instances where you let NPCs say all kinds of things the character you are RPing may disagree with but there are no options to express that short of exiting dialog and attacking them, which aside from being senseless, is likely useless because their likely essential.

The author gives praise to Fallout: NV, but it still suffers from the same lack of consequence in places. Kill Caesar and all his legionaries and the slaves react not a jot. They just carry on with their same old slave routine - which is quite disappointing because it's a fair effort to free them! But I can except the developers can't account for every action the player may come up with or the game would be in development for decades; so I just use some imagination and put it down to Stockholm syndrome or something.

DIS-agree.

That's not true. The Legion attacks you on sight after that. You are instantly abhorred. You have to kill everyone in the camp that sees you just to get out. It is true that that the slaves don't react like you'd like them to, which is disappointing.

i usually like to play snarky characters but when caezer told me what he would do if i kept the attitude up i immediately realized i was barely adequate gear and was surrounded by his houseguard. i got nicer after that. there are NO instances in skyrim like that. when you tell the first jarl in whiterun about the attack you get an option to reveal that your an escaped convict. how the hell does he know you werent being executed for slaughtering a family. you just get some general response about being forthright about being a prisoner. compare that to how the brotherhood of steel treats you if you enter their bunker before meeting "punching chick". they put a tracking collar on you for crying out loud and the BoS are only a minor faction in the game.

lol trust me I know that, I played the originals when they were new. The writer was comparing NV to Skyrim, saying NV making him feel like he had big decisions to make that would effect the wasteland as compared to your players actions effecting Skyrim,....either game you don't get to see the effect to your cause efforts.

NV was published by Bethesda, made by Obsidian, you can bet Beth had quite a bit of control over the game's making.

I don't understand his problem, all Elderscrolls games are like this.