Skyrim is Soulless : V - Skyrim

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:31 am

This argument again? Maybe the game designers should use their imagination and have NPCs that actually react to the changing world around them. Or NPCs that actually have human motivations that can be explored. Or devise scenarios where your choices actually matter so those choices mean something to the player who is trying to use their imagination to craft their character. The imagination that goes into the world and it's people is the designers job. They're the DM and we're the PCs.

Some examples of lazy writing I came across last night that could actually be great avenues for RPing that were completely missed:

I'm walking to Whiterun from the NW. I come upon a group of Thalmor walking up the road. I think to myself "Oh, this could be cool" I engage conversation and I have two choices: " Who are you?" and "What are the Thalmor". Let's look at how limited that is for a moment. I have no problems with those questions but there has to be more. Firstly, the game assumes I am somehow ignorant of the last era of history of the game by leaving me with only these questions which breaks immersion right there. Secondly, it ignores that I have already dealt with the Thalmor but leaves me no other options. Again, breaks immersion. I ask anyway. For, who are you, I get "I'm a Thalmor Justiciar" Okay. Who is the Thalmor then? "We're the rightful rulers of this continent and soon we rule over lesser races like you again" And that's it. The two grayed out questions hang there. I can't respond in any way. No new dialog opens up. In FO I'd be able to agree with. Disagree with her or tell her to F off possibly making her attack me. But no, nothing. I just take my insults and do the only thing the game allows. Exit out of dialog and kill them all. Endless missed opportunity. Not only that killing them made the guards attack me when I arrived in Whiterun. I kill three before yielding, pay my fine and it's like nothing ever happened. The Thalmor don't care. Nobody in Whiterun cares. Nothing.

Another example of a useless NPC? The racist guy in Windhelm. Why's he so vociferously racist? I dunno, can't ask him. Can't confront him. Can't tell him he's an ass. Can't do anything. What's the point? He's ripe for one to be able to confront him. Maybe brawl with him (aside for money in the inn which has nothing to do his racism) till he submits and you get a story out of him? Nope. Maybe be able to use speech to get further insights? Nope.

The game is filled with these instances where you let NPCs say all kinds of things the character you are RPing may disagree with but there are no options to express that short of exiting dialog and attacking them, which aside from being senseless, is likely useless because their likely essential.

Maybe he should have used his imagination. Sticking to quests and playing the game as its intended? That's so linear and unimaginative after you've done everything. Imagination FTW. Every NPC reacting to every choice? Er, this has to go on consoles, dude. ES was never about left/right dialogue choices anyway. And I couldn't care less.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:23 am

I stopped reading after he completely failed to get the situation with Agnis and complained about her not being set free.

I thought it was humorous that this old lady was making home in a fort where bloody takeovers are as common as snowfall in Skyrim.

This article was [censored].

And seriously, who uses Agnis as a jumping off point for emotional impact.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:05 am

I'm glad that there are people appearing who give stomps here and there to Skyrim.
They are just the proof that Skyrim is not a perfect game and that it has LOT of flaws and LOT of things which could've been done better.

Spoiler

Agnis is a murder victim for the DB side-missions. She probably doesn't care about people because she's a bad person herself. Bad enough to have someone put a DB contract on her, anyway.

Sorry, but that logic is broken.
People will put a bounty on your head if they need you dead, not because you are good or evil.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:22 am

If you want an example of soulless, look to DA2.

I disagree strongly with this. Dragon age 2 may have had lame gameplay and a boring story, but it's characters where very memorable and miles above the origins characters.

I'm glad that there are people appearing who give stomps here and there to Skyrim.
They are just the proof that Skyrim is not a perfect game and that it has LOT of flaws and LOT of things which could've been done better.

No game is perfect, if you always expect perfection you will be disappointed with a lot of things in life. Could Skyrim have had better storylines and characters? Sure! but characters in the elderscrolls universe have never been really deep, the Elder Scrolls games revolve more about YOUR character than an old lady in a keep.

Elder Scrolls has always been about exploring a vast world and crawling through dungeons, and Skyrim does an amazing job at that.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:15 am

I disagree strongly with this. Dragon age 2 may have had lame gameplay and a boring story, but it's characters where very memorable and miles above the origins characters.

I didn't care about a single character in DA2. It was all a bland experience. Luckily the Witcher 2 was released a short time later and all was well.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:56 am

Yeah you guys should use your imagination and play pretend.

Pretend the writing and the AI of this game doesn't svck balls. It's actually a pretty fun game once you do that.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:31 pm

Maybe he should have used his imagination. Sticking to quests and playing the game as its intended? That's so linear and unimaginative after you've done everything. Imagination FTW. Every NPC reacting to every choice? Er, this has to go on consoles, dude. ES was never about left/right dialogue choices anyway. And I couldn't care less.

:facepalm:
Comments like this make me stomp kittens. >_>

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:56 pm

Yeah the writing was so good for DA series and Witcher that you guys are playing that instead of demanding more of that type of crap on here. Oh, I guess the replayability isn't so hot for those games huh?

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:43 am

Care to elaborate on what you find soulful about Skyrim?

I hope it's not the pretty scenery.

I might accept that, yes, Skyrim does not have a soul. Thing is there's no game out there that has one! Especially not New Vegas.

Some enemies turning hostile to you is not soul, not even close, all games have that, Skyrim has that! Just because there's no way in some cases to change your reputation doesn't really make the game more "alive" or whatever and, again, other than the outright extreme of them attacking you. Inbetween there's simply no difference whatsoever just a funny description on the reputation part in your pip-boy, nobody will address you differently, nobody will even mention your past deeds, nobody will swear revenge against you...

It's not even like the reaction of the NPCs are better written, they just say "ugh" if they see somebody die, they tend to just ingore dead bodies, enemies don't run away when outnumbered, they still mindlessly attack you no matter who you are, they still walk into walls, they still stare into nothingness, etc...

Most of your quest choices don't add much to the big picture either. You are barely even mentioned on the radio, others don't tend to say anything about it and other quests don't tend to look up the completion of other quests, like Veronica will still ask you to inspect the Archimedes station, even though you've already activated it. You just get a different ending, that's it.

Yes, Skyrim is not perfect, it doesn't give answers to everything, people doesn't react to every action you take, and sometimes you don't get the choice you want to take. That is because this is a VIDEO GAME, none of them are capable of doing that.
There's no soul in it, because science is not developed enough to use sentient AI in commercial use...

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:21 am

Sure! but characters in the elderscrolls universe have never been really deep - -.

Save just one. Vehk. I bet no game character ever, anywhere, has been even a tiny bit as deep! Not even Revan of the KOTORs, which is saying something. Or Kreia. Or. G0-T0. What, G0-T0 not deep? You're 99,9% of those KOTOR II players that never understood a thing that's going on.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:01 am

I didn't care about a single character in DA2. It was all a bland experience. Luckily the Witcher 2 was released a short time later and all was well.

The witcher 2 was awful.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:53 am

:facepalm:
Comments like this make me stomp kittens. >_>

Why, do you not have an imagination? ES has never been about left/right dialogue choices. Therefore I couldn't care less if it stays the way it is. I don't like cats anyway, stomp away.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:23 am

Save just one. Vehk. I bet no game character ever, anywhere, has been even a tiny bit as deep! Not even Revan of the KOTORs, which is saying something. Or Kreia. Or. G0-T0. What, G0-T0 not deep? You're 99,9% of those KOTOR II players that never understood a thing that's going on.

I remember thinking at one point that I knew what was going on in KOTOR II... Then the ending happened, and I had to backtrack and play the game 3 more times. :wacko:

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:22 am

One word: Imagination

This reviewer should obviously just stick to cod and battlefield.

» Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:56 pm

I want Bethesda to design and create the world and lore, and let BioWare populate it with NPCs and Quests (although not the DA2 team, more the BG2 and DAO team).

Please?

Pretty sure those are doing TOR, so they're not available to make single player games now.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:56 am

One word: Imagination

This reviewer should obviously just stick to cod and battlefield.

People who play shooters are not beneath you. Stop being so derogatory to people you don't even know, it makes you look like an arrogant [censored].

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:31 am

How many If/then's does this reviewer want Beth to program?

Holy [censored], what a picky bastard. He dumps hundreds of hours into Skyrim, and then complains that it isn't perfect. . . I've never seen that one before (looks around entire forums) oh wait. . .

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:38 pm

Geez, 14 pages of this.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:47 am

Geez, 14 pages of this.

I just saw a mod in here, Im suprised he didnt close it.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:02 am

I agree. I think the author put as much time into the article as he did Skyrim.

The fact that Skryim doesn't invite the author to do that is a shame on the developers, not the author.

I have more fun imagining about what Skyrim can be rather than what it is. As gaming is an INTERACTIVE medium, it means it's a poor game.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:18 am

The fact that Skryim doesn't invite the author to do that is a shame on the developers, not the author.

I have more fun imagining about what Skyrim can be rather than what it is. As gaming is an INTERACTIVE medium, it means it's a poor game.

No it doesn't mean a thing. If the author prefers a Diablo style hack-n-slash, then it's neither his nor the developer's "fault" (perhaps more the author's fault for trying to make Skyrim be Diablo). If he prefers a cinematic game that he will play once and uninstall that is more like a movie than a game, the same can be said.

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:59 am

Why, do you not have an imagination? ES has never been about left/right dialogue choices. Therefore I couldn't care less if it stays the way it is. I don't like cats anyway, stomp away.

:facepalm:
Just...
:facepalm:

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:05 am

The fact that Skryim doesn't invite the author to do that is a shame on the developers, not the author.

I have more fun imagining about what Skyrim can be rather than what it is. As gaming is an INTERACTIVE medium, it means it's a poor game.

Lol. Some of the world's thousands of NPCs aren't dynamically programmed.

Did someone steal your sweetroll?

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:28 am

While I agree, Todd Howard himself has actually said that this is there goal. I remember in a video, he said that at its core the game was "Going through a cave killing things and getting loot". Sad indeed.

Well....I don't know what to tell you, but maybe you'd be better off playing a Bioware game or a JRPG. It's pretty obvious that The Elder Scrolls is not intended to be as plot-driven as those types of RPGs, favoring open-ended sandbox play.

I will agree that the one-liners from guards and some townsfolk could've used more attention (which leads me to wonder if they were rushed). And Speechcraft skill needs a good overhaul and expanded functionality; beyond simply merging it with mercantilism (that doesn't change the fact it's always been a weakly implemented skill, even since Daggerfall).

» Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:49 am

:facepalm:
Just...
:facepalm:

Way to not make a point. LOL at people that don't know how to argue or make a point, or how to use their imagination. If I didnt have an imagination, Id probably be hitting myself in the face like you are too.