I use Steam for plenty of things, and whilst I'd gladly buy Skyrim even if it was a Steamworks exclusive, there's something about these single player RPGs that just screams "climb onto your computer at 5AM on a snowy morning and play away with no interaction with the internet or the outside world".

I use Steam(because I was forced to)
And I agree with everything ASV said.

i liked it how it was in F:NV. i hope skyrim will use it too

I don't get the issue of not being able to go into Steam offline mode when your Internet is down. It's always worked fine for me. I get a popup that says something like "can't connect to Internet. Would you like to go in offline mode?" and you just indicate that you do. Wham bam thank you mam and you're playing your games in SP again.

90% of the things you guys are labeling as cons (for silly/selfish reasons imo) are easily disabled with 2 clicks of your mouse. You have wasted far more effort posting in this thread than you would have ever used getting steam to work as you prefer it.


Don't like achievements because they "Break Immersion" ? Turn em off.

Don't like auto updates? Turn em off.

Don't like cloud saves? Why not? There is no negative, the saves are still on your HDD. Don't like cloud, don't use it/turn it off.


Multiple Computer Use? If you don't use it, fine, not a con though in the least, just an option for those that want it. And no, you cannot do the same thing with discs easier. Two clicks on each machine and both games will be installed and ready to play. Try putting the same amount of effort with discs and see how far ya get...

No need for discs is great. I have 105 games on my PC right now that are all 2 clicks away from playing. How is that not a pro compared to discs?

Online activation? Deal with it, it may be a con, but it takes less than 30 seconds tops. Again, how long did it take you to write a post complaining about said inconvenience?


Steam Client is not a con. It has no discernible performance effects on any PC built in the last 6 years. If you are playing Skyrim on it, then you wont notice steam is running. Don't like notifications? Turn em off.


Steam Overlay? Irrelevant? So you would rather run Xfire, a program that does 1/100th of what steam does, than run steam itself? There is no logic in this, unless you have very very specific needs that only xfire can accomplish, steam provides everything needed for the gamer.Group Chat, Web Browser, Voice Chat, Profiles, Friends Lists, Groups, Clans, Guides, Game Specific News, Ect. And the beauty of it all? You don't have to use any of it if you don't like it. You use the features you want.

If the said gamer for some reason does not want said benefits? It takes 30 seconds to configure Steam so that they are all disabled. Once again, I guarantee anyone complaining about steam integration has spent more time complaining about it, than they would ever be hassled by it.

I know even in typing this short post I have taken longer than anything steam has ever had me do in relation to a game.

Really, people these days will find anything to complain about.

If I don't like woodelves does that mean they should not be in the game? Does that mean that I and my entitled self should not have to endure the presence of said elves while playing my hundreds of hours of Skyrim? Even though those same elves bring others so much joy? Should I complain about them, boycott, try to see them removed? Just so I don't have to have a game with woodelves in it? Common guys. Just install it and play. Steam software is less intrusive that the OS it is running on.

depends of the use they want do of Steam.

1 - I'm free, and i want remain free: i will not buy Skyrim if i need to be connected 24/7 only for play my favoured game;
2 - also with saves on Steam i will avoid Skyrim for the same reason: freedom come first than a game;
3 - in my future i will avoid internet, cutting my phone line and use only the internet point to DL mods, then have a game that costraint myself to use internet isn't good for me;
4 - after have buyed a Total War game and have discovered that was playable only using steam and internet i have very few trust on new games.

I added on more choice about how Steam should be used in Skyrim

Non Steamworks but Upgradable to Steamworks


I know that there are those who want the boxed game and all its goodies but also want it fully itergrated in Steam. So what if there was a code or file of some sort that could be input on Steam that would give you the Steamworks version from the Non-Steamworks Retail Version.

I don't really care for mods, so I will be buying Skyrim, but not for the PC. I will not use Steam if I don't have to. So I will be getting it for the 360. I rather deal with Microsoft than Steam. So far I had no problems on Xbox Live. I find Xbox Live a more better experiance than Steam.

How do you feel about Steam in general? - It's not for me and won't be until they fix some things. I should be able to AT LEAST gift a game I have IN MY LIBRARY to a friend (as in: removed from my library, added to theirs). Really I should be able to sell it if I want. Also I should be able to lend games like http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?ref=hp_rel_topic?ie=UTF8&nodeId=200549320&tag=gmgamzn-20. Lastly it needs to be in their Terms of Service that if they ever go out of business the mandatory activation will be disabled, therefore allowing me to always play the games even after Valve goes out of business.

Have you changed your mind about Steam? - No. They've never addressed my issues with them

How would you like to see it implemented in Skyrim? - Skyrim should definitely be sold on Steam for those who want a Steam copy. Likewise a non-Steamed copy should be available for those who DON'T want steam

Will the inclusion of Steamworks effect your decision to purchase Skyrim? I will buy Skyrim regardless, HOWEVER I won't be buying it for the PC version if it is Steamed, instead buying it for a console

I am certain that is what you meant by the last one, but that is unclear by the question. You should make it clear that you mean "Will the inclusion of Steamworks effect your decision to purchase Skyrim for the PC?" and a choice for buying it for a console instead becuase of Steam should be added


Achievements - Irrelevant and all-around stupid.
Automatic Updates - Irrelevant and annoying
Cloud Savegames (assume they work) - Irrelevant and annoying
Mac Support - Irrelevant as Skyrim won't be released on Mac OS X. Just because Steam is available on Mac OS X, doesn't mean the entire library is (most aren't, in fact)
Monopolistic Business Model - Con. Dangerous and I wish the Supreme Court would swing the Sherman Antitrust Act more heavily in general (personal opinion)
Multiple Computer Use - Irrelevant. You can do this with any game you have the license to, though the exact specifications differ from game to game
Multiple Downloads - What? That doesn't even make any sense. Irrelevant because any modern piece of software that allows downloading can do simultaneous downloads
No need for a disk - You mean disc with a "c". Disk with a "k" is for magnetic storage like a hard drive disk, which you still need. Anyway, pro. Pretty much the only one
Offline Mode - Irrelevant. If you aren't using Steam (barring MMOs and other horrid forms of DRM) you always can play offline
Online Activation - Con - annoying and stupid
Personal Gameplay Statistics - Irrelevant. Same as achievements
Sales and Bundled Deals - Irrelevant. Same thing happens in real stores
Steam Client - Con. I don't want to put up with a dumb client just to play my games
Steam Community - Irrelevant. I'd rather have a game-specific community honestly
Steam Overlay - Con. Annoying
Steamworks (forced registration) - Con. Annoying and stupid
Terms of Service - Con. I can play Morrowind 20 years from now without a doubt. Will I be able to play Steam games 20 years from now? You cannot definitively say yes.
Title Exclusivity - Con. Exclusives are a horrible thing that need to die.

I tolerate Steam for the sales. Otherwise I consider it to be a general nuisance on my machine.

I'd be much happier if Skyrim was non-steam.

Steam works (lol) really well for the most part. Honestly there seems to be some people that don't use it and think it's evil for misinformed reasons. Valve, evil? These are the guys that have updated a game out 4 years ago constantly for free, they're the saints of the industry. They went ahead and redid Day of Defeat Source entirely just because people asked them to.

That being said I can see people not wanting it as mandatory. The offline thing doesn't work that well still.

One thing I can say for sure is I would likely not buy the game if it required Games for Windows Live, that's saying a lot because I really love Elder Scrolls games. But Games for Windows Live is by far one of the worst things Microsoft has ever done, I wont go into much detail other than saying it's really annoying when a game requires it especially if it requires something else on top of that. (GTA IV)

As far as Steam is concerned, I'm not to worried as long as I still get the box that comes with all the cool physical stuff like the map and game guide and even the game disc.
My personal preference would be being able to link the game to steam if you wish and still get achievements and updates through steam if you did.

Bottom line... Steam is okay. GWL absolute no no.

I love Steam, it's very convenient.

I don't think Steam should be mandatory, but I like it over all. I'd buy the game regardless. I don't see what the big deal is with a one-time Steam registration. Register and forget that Steam even exists.

Achievements - eh. I like seeing what I and my friends have accomplished, but it doesn't matter in the long run.
Automatic Updates - pro, especially since you can turn them off. Tons and tons of modding in Oblivion problems are solved by upgrading.
Cloud Savegames (assume they work) - pro. I have several computers, it'd be nice to play the same character on them.
Mac Support - irrelevant to me personally, but my heart goes out to my mac-loving brethren.
Monopolistic Business Model - pro, actually. I like getting everything at one place, having separate networks for each publisher is a major pain. I'd love it if everything on the net was linked to one account.
Multiple Computer Use - pro.
Multiple Downloads - pro.
No need for a disk - PRO.
Offline Mode - its a good option to have.
Online Activation - eh. I'll deal.
Personal Gameplay Statistics - pro. I just wish they recorded offline time as well.
Sales and Bundled Deals - PRO.
Steam Client - eh.
Steam Community - pro. I don't have many friends on there yet, but its nice to keep up with them.
Steam Overlay - opening the internet while in game is nice, otherwise I don't particularly care.
Steamworks (forced registration) - no better or worse than any other forced registration.
Terms of Service - you get those with everything else, too.
Title Exclusivity - con.

Personally I don't see any "pros" in Steam - anything that requires Internet to install or play the game at any moment is unacceptable for me. I don't trust the servers to run forever, and I like to re install old games once in a while. Not to mention I don't want to be restricted by needing Internet connection - I can be away from any on line computers for a while, and I still want my option to install any old game I like to pass the time. If they want to include Steam as a bonus for thous who want it, I don't mind, but if any Internet connection is required I will not be pleased.

If steam is forced, then it is a con.
Why should a disk you buy in store be only usable on third party software you may not want?

If I'm paying almost $100 for a game, I damn well expect it to be usable out of the box.
I have had many bad experiances with steam before, and although I know some people are fine with it, that doesn't mean everyone should be forced to use it.

I foolishly bought halflife 2 when it first came out, I was so excited I didn't realise that the DVD version still required steam anyway. I had only dial up connection at the time, and that resulted in being unable to play the game, as it forced an update before play.

I like to have complete control over my system and my software, I want it to only update when I want. and don't tell me about how you can disable updates in steam, I've tried before and after a while it forces you to update anyway.

the way I see it is this: all the fancy steam 'benifits' are pretty much redundant for a single player game. I don't give a guar about achivements or score ratings, I just want to play my game. as for the not requiring a disk to play? easy, I normaly make a digital copy on my hardrive and am able to play with that.

Steam may be great for some people, and I have no problems with there being a 'steam version' but if they make the pysical version require steam, thats gonna be a deal breaker for me.

All is either pro or not a con for me.

Too many people get upset over any perceived "threat" to their "freedom". No need to get so angry about a program, even if you are required to use it but the game's engine doesn't require it. Windows itself has so many processes running without permission that you may not use and whatnot. Meh, I'm not bothered by something so insignificant.

Also, lol @ buying the console version if the PC ver. has Steamworks. Seems a little overboard.

My computer is crap so I use a console, i dont have to deal with steam.

Ditto

Does Steam actually effect anything? Besides not being signed up on steam.
I remember correctly you don't even have to log in when the game is in use.

What hinderance is there using steam exactly?
How long does it take to process the game with steam after you have bought it at the store?

Unless there is DRM, Steam hinders nothing and causes no possible issue. It actually makes the game better due to achievements, friends lists, etc.

Steam IS a DRM, with lots of fluff to make it look nice and pretty.

Better for who? yourself? It's not better for me. I don't like achievements, I could care less about friends lists. It only makes it better for those who are social. I'm 29 years old, married, 2 kids, and I'm a freaking hermit. I don't have myspace, facebook, twitter, or any kind of online program that allows people to check up on me.

Also, at another poster, why is it "Lol @ people buying console over PC if PC uses steam"? I can't help it that I only have a 26.4k Dial-up connection that makes it virtually impossible for me to use steam(keep in mind, that is my fastest speed. Quite often my Dial-up connects at 20.4k-24.4k) Why should I not enjoy the game on a console instead of not being able to enjoy it at all? Did you even think before you typed that, or do you just spew forth whatever your mind comes up with at a whim? For some people, steam is just literally not an option. It's not that we are against it, or don't like it's features, its simply that the area we live in eliminates any semblance of a decent internet connection required to use certain programs. I can't even use Xbox Live because it requires a 56.6k connection minimum to connect with.

Seriously, think before you type people. Don't lump everyone into the same group. This isn't a black and white question. There are areas of grey.

just play offline in steam)

And most of people love tweeter, steam etc

That's assuming Starwulf could ever download the mandatory patches to do so. Steam does require the game to be the current version first.

I like Steam. I don't even give care about achievements or anything like that. Plain and simple, Steam is convenient. I have at least 15 games installed, and playing them is but a twitch of the mouse and a button click away. Sure, it's not hard to just put in a CD, as I have many games that I own a physical version of and that require a CD. It really doesn't matter to me, but Steam is a very convenient service.

The only real downside that I can understand is that to fully enjoy Steam, you must have a stable internet connection. In the future, hopefully none of that will matter.