It seems some users would rather buy this game on console than buy it on PC if steam is included. Are they not aware that consoles force you to download automatic updates before playing? The no internet argument is a legitimate if rare case, but using a console would not be helpful in that case either...

Steam is great I use it for everything.


I’ve always liked it .


Steamworks version sold through Steam, Non Steamworks version sold everywhere else.


Nope.

I have never been forced to download any updates for any of my games on the Xbox 360, and some of those games are in fact ones that I know have updates that could be downloaded. If you can't connect/don't have internet plugged into the Xbox, it isn't going to make you unable to play. Not sure where you got your faulty information from....

Offline Mode. Yes, the game has to be updated but if you buy the game early and there is no day 1 patch, it won't be a problem. And you can leave it in Offline Mode for all eternity. Mods are fun too. Slow Internet doesn't exclude them. Plus, being able to patch the game, even if it takes days for a large update, is worth if you can't use Xbox LIVE. What'll happen if there are some game-breaking bugs? It's happened in the past and it'll make your console version a pain in the rear.

Steam is fine for me, but they should make it optional in retail versions for those who hate it.

I love Steam, if I have the option I will always buy it on steam and I've never had one Steam related problem.

I like Steam, Always have, but If I buy Skyrim in stores I expect not to have to use steam. I only use it for Valve titles and Gmod anyway.
So give us choice, Steamworks, or a Disc Check. Therefore, those who buy it in stores, wanting it on Steam can, and those of us with bad Internet, can get a disc check, which worked great for Oblivion.

I've used steam since when Valve released it. Used to hate it, but loved it once I understood what it was all about.
Keeps your game up to date, no need to physical copy, no swapping DVDs/CDs, play the game anywhere, access&install&download the game anywhere even if the physical disc burned in hell fire etc.

The interface might put you off, it might first seem just like big shop through which you can buy games it's a lot more than that.

Before steam even had a shop you had friends list with who you could join in multiplayer games with. There's now communities where you can search for your friends or other like minded folk through groups. If your friends are gamers they likely have steam account already.

If the game is steam only version I'll byt collectors edition of Skyrim. If not, I rather buy steam version just so that I wouldn't have to swap DVDs all the time if I want to play something else.

The easy way around that, is I'll just have to wait a year before I play skyrim, and then I'll just buy the GOTY edition that will likely include all patches, and hopefully, any mini-stuff like KoTN that oblivion had. It's the great thing about being a parent, you learn a LOT of patience. Skyrim may be the best game ever, but if I have to wait a year, that will be just fine for me, lol. I have plenty of other games I can play in the meantime. It's not like I/We(the rest of the TES community) haven't waited years just for confirmation that they were working on Skyrim, ya know? A bit more of a wait is just a drop in the bucket.

Edit: Also, not to be offensive or anything, but, what is with all the lazy people who cite the benefit of "not having to swap out cd/dvds" out of their disc drive? I mean, is it truly such a chore/waste of energy to lean over, press the eject button, remove the disc, put it back in it's case, and then grab the game you want to play, take the disc out, and put it in the CD/DVD/Blu-ray drive? I mean, wow, that's not a benefit at all, that's honestly just plain old laziness.

No offense but the 'turn off it's features' argument is very weak imo. If people just turn off all of steams features what is the point of having steam in the first place? it just an unnecessary thing running in the backgorund, so why should people be forced to game with something that is redundant for them?

I have always thought of my self as a very patient person, until I had kids! Also having kids made me realize the benefits of not having to have the CD in the tray to play a game.

Why is there avocado smeared on my Morrowind disk??!?
No daddy, thats guacamole!!


When I first heard about Steam many years ago I thought that it sounded like a wonderful idea, but once I got a closer look at it I found it to be poorly implemented.

The Steam client for example, here is a program that has nothing to do with the game, but has to be running in order to play. Sure it has a lot of cool features, but I'm honestly not interested them. No problem, I can turn them all off right? So now I have a program that does absolutely nothing whatsoever, why even bother? The requirements may as well read "Need a blank untitled Notepad document open to play the game"; it would use less system resources. If you have to be online to get the full benefit anyway then there shouldn't even be Online/Offline modes, or a separate program for that matter. If you want to have all the cool online features then go online and logon to Steam, if you just want to play the game then launch the game by itself without any extra programs and play it like any other game.

Instead of Auto Patching On/Off, maybe have Patching Auto/Manual/None. Then when you go online, depending on how you have it set, it either upgrades to the latest patch, tells you that there is a new patch and gives you the option to download it only (the actual patching you would do yourself) or it doesn't even bother to check your patch/version number.

I'm really looking forward to Skyrim, I do not have an XBox 360 or PSN so I'm planning to get it for PC. I was looking forward even more to Fallout: New Vegas, but I did not get it due to the Steam requirement. There have been a number of games that I wanted but ultimately did not get due to Steam requirements. I don't foresee Skyrim as being the one game that finally breaks my spirit and makes me finally choose Steam.

That seriously made me laugh out loud. I can even picture one of my daughters doing/saying that, just replace avocado/guacamole with Peanut Butter. I think I've gotten both more & less patient since the birth of my two daughters. Having to wait for stuff is an area I've vastly improved, which is why I'll have no problem waiting a year to play Skyrim if steam is an requirement to play the game. On the other hand, when they get into crazy shenanigans, that's where my patience has dwindled(which, is rather funny, since I can hardly recall more then a handful of times growing up when I wasn't getting into something crazy).

Honestly, I think if my internet connection was better, I wouldn't mind Steam at all. I mean, I wouldn't use any of it's features, they are all redundant or useless for me(as I've said earlier in the thread, I am literally a hermit, I have little contact with the outside world with the exception of my 3 best friends), but man, some of the sales I've read about Steam having....I know sometimes you can find great deals in stores, but nowhere near as often, and even more rarely, on the same quality of games that Steam does. Course, I also dislike the idea of not having a physical copy of a game. This whole "digital media" crap gets on my nerves the more and more I hear/read about it. I just can't wrap my brain around the concept of paying for something and not having something physical to own in return(please, no "what about electricity, or heating oil, etc" because while you can't hold electricity in your hands, you still get physical benefits from it).

Some day, years from now, Valve is going to go out of business, steam is going to shut down, and even if they give you the ability to play the game without it, sooner or later, your going to switch computers, and with their servers gone, your game is gone with it. Or you'll get a virus and have to wipe your entire computer. Then what? You have no game anymore. Nothing to show for your money spent. Nothing but memories that will eventually fade with time. On the other hand, those who buy the physical copy, as long as they take good care of it, will have it until the day they die, or just decide to sell it because they physical copy of the game is now worth a small fortune because so few people bought it that way(Like Earthbound for the SNES. I have game, box, and manual(with scratch n sniff insert still in book). It's worth between 2-400 dollars on Ebay depending on how good it's condition is). I myself have a large collection of games, and among that collection, I have a decent sized collection of rare games, that if I sold, could net me about 2,500 bucks, because every last one of them is worth 2-3x more now then they were when I bought them. The exact same is likely to happen(even more so now with the advent of this digital media crap) with some of this generations games, and those of us who buy the Physical copies are going to be much happier down the road then those of you who buy the digital form.

Wow...that got kinda long, when all I was originally going to say was how funny that avocado/guacamole bit was.

I'm all for Steam. I love it, but I want to be able to buy the game retail and still get Steamworks. Sometimes the pricing is higher on Steam, sometimes not, so having both ways to get it and still get Steamworks would be lovely.

I don't really care about having to access the internet once to confirm that you have bought the game, but some people do and I think having a retail version would benefit both parts as long as you can get Steamworks if you want.

I would be perfectly happy if they have Steam versions, and Non Steam versions. And like the other op said, would be happy to pay a higher price for an off-Steam version.
It would still be more economical than my existing plan B, if it is Steam only, which would be to buy an xbox because there is no way on this planet I am prepared to go through the sickening experiance I have had with New Vegas.
It just seems like good sense to give us the choice.

I really don't like steam, but I'm not against it if they decide they should use it.

I say a steamworks version sold over steam and non-steamworks everywhere else.

I can understand people with internet issues having a problem with Steam.That is a very valid problem and one that has virtually no work around if the game is a Steam game only.

However, I really hate when I see people saying things like "Steam svcks! I've never used it but I hear horror stories from the interweb so it MUST be bad!", or "Steams DRM, so I hate it". First of all if you have never used it, you shouldn't say anything about it and just give it a try. When ever one of these Steam discussions start people will trash it despite the fact they have clearly never used it, and that's idiotic. Second, yes Steam is a form of DRM... but its far more then that. Its a game/store/community/stat/update management system that also happens to function as DRM. Its not invasive, does not hurt PC performance, and does not force you to constantly be on the internet (it has an offline mode, that only requires you be on the net for installation). Considering some of the alternatives such as Ubisofts failed attempt at DRM, its really a great system with a lot of upsides.

I think the biggest problem Steam has is that so many people blame it for everything. When New Vegas came out for example, Steam was being blamed for all its issues including performance issues. Never mind that Obsidian has a long history of making buggy and broken games... since Steam is evil it MUST be whats causing the in game issues right? Ummm no. Yet such rumors were rampant when NV came out, and Gabe from Valve even posted on their forums to remind people they didn't make the game, and are not responsible for its in-game issues. When people get it in their mind something svcks, they will trash it and blame it for everything.

In reality there is nothing wrong with Steam, unless you have internet issues and then downloading games from Steam will be a problem... but playing games on Steam with slow internet is not generally an issue. If you don't have any internet then yes, it will be a problem... but its rare to find someone who can't at least connect to the net to verify the game and set Steam to offline mode. Aside from that, if you have hated Steam for no reason other then what others say or your paranoid fear of DRM.... give it a try. If you have an open mind about it, odds are you will not have any issue with it.

If its optional I won't have a problem getting it but if its required to play the game with Steam then I'll just get it for the 360. No need to waste my money on something thats not truly mine if Steam is required in order to play the game.

I honestly see no excuse to hate on it unless you have no internet....and you wouldn't be posting if you had no internet.


also....offline mode ftw.

Society and it's relationship with the computer is growing more necessary by the day.

I remember when I was a young little lad. It was the early 2000's and I was in 7th grade. At that time, if you had a project to such as typing an essay or making a powerpoint, there were always alternative options for people that did not own a computer. Rare was it, at least in my area, that people used the "No computers" option, but it existed and people were indifferent. Fast forward a few years to my High School days, and projects there basically mandated that you had a computer. Society, at least there, no longer felt like it had to bend over backwards because it wanted to be fair to everyone. No. There have been many years where computer-absent alternatives were provided, but times changed and the social expectation was that all people had access to a computer.

What you see here is an application of the same thing. And don't be fooled, it isn't just Steam. In fact, Steam is a plus in that it doesn't need to be on the internet 100% of the time. It could be like Ubisoft, where they require an always-online connection to their server even though their games have absolutely no online capabilities. It's not unreasonable to ask for a one-time activation. In the modern day, it is expected that you have an internet connection if you want to do things. For consoles, you need internet to make the most of the experience, download patches, and receive updates for other functions that you don't get out of the box. PC Gaming, being the open and easily torrented environment as it is, requires a level of DRM for the sake of making money. Steam, being that DRM, is probably the least intrusive I have ever used. From the view of the publishers and those profiting from the game, they don't care if you refuse to buy the game because of its DRM. They make those profits back on the sheer principle that it's harder to steal now.

I can understand it if you feel like you're being forced into using Steam. You need to download the client because that is how the DRM works, a client on your computer with user credentials saved on it. But if you're really going to refuse to buy the game simply because it uses Steam, I advise you to get your priorities straight, considering the alternatives. And if you think Oblivion's DRM worked, it didn't. Some people I know installed Shivering Isles 10 different times on 10 different computers with the same copy. Since you only need the Oblivion disk to play, it essentially made the expansions free as long as one person bought them. Fortunately, I love Bethesda too much to do that, but it cost them money. It really did.

I don't get why Steam-lovers are so bent over the idea of making Steam optional. In my opinion it's just unreasonable to argue against Steam being optional. If it's optional, then both camps have what they want. If it's mandatory, then a lot of people have something they don't want--the overwhelming majority due to a bad experience or multiple bad experiences they have had with it. Has anyone else noticed a pattern here that those who like Steam "Have never had a problem with it," while those who don't like it and just want the option at least to opt-out have had problems with it? I can't think of a reason why someone would have a problem with having a choice whether or not to use it. Make it optional please.

If I had my way, it would be "Non Steamworks but Upgradable to Steamworks" since I like to buy boxed copies but I also like to have Steamworks.

If anyone is "bent over the idea of making Steam optional", it's probably because they fear that Steamworks will not be implemented at all if Bethesda has an alternative DRM for those who don't want Steam.

In my experiences, it's always an argument between "people who have used Steam and liked" it vs "people who have never used Steam." I don't see people who really have issues with Steam aside from the occasional anti-Steam link to another forum that contains a several-year-old post about a hacked account.

If Steam was optional, you'd just end up getting SecuRom with an online activation anyways. There's no such thing as "DRM Free" and online activation is the way to go these days.

Actually in this post there have been a fair number of people who have said they don't want it because they've had issues with it in the past.

I don't have a problem with online activation. To be more specific I don't want Skyrim to require that the steam client be running in order to play, in the even that Steam takes a dump and I'd then be unable to play until I resolved it.





This is how I'd like to see it done, also.

I love steam, at first I was sceptical but its great. I love having a diverse set of games in my library available anytime I want. Feel like slicing up some b!tches? Oblivion, M&B warband! Feeling political? Hitman, Rome and Empire Total war! Need to shoot someone? BBC2, Arma2OA! Tired of the world? L4d2, fallout3NV, Killing floor!

All in my library and more ready when I feel like it.



STEAM SALES!!!!!!



also steam is owned and operated by valve, which is a PRIVATELY owned company. Owned and operated by GAMERS turned developers, and good developers too. They are different from those greedy corporations and even worse the execs that control them.


I don't want to force people to have to have steamworks, but Skyrim needs steam achievements! (at least on the steam version)

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I hope that never has to happen :biggrin: