I think they should put up some quests for the Divinites/Gods, they have so little content, I think like three sidequest. It makes sense, kinda like a counterpart to all the Daedric quests.

I believe it was Nietzsche who said that morality is for the weak and less fortunate while great men thrive and make a good life for themselves.


But really, being bad is always going to have more rewards than being good. That's life.



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So I guess my Nord, Imperial supporting, believes the Thalmor are correct, Daedra worshiping, dragon slaying, Dragonborn, two handed axe wielding, pawner is a bad guy? I don't see it that way. I see it that my character is using the Daedra Princes for their nice loot, feels the Empire has always been supported by Skyrim and the Nords, and doesn't really care much for Talos and the other gods, so who cares if the Elves are running off with Nords who break Imperial Law? The Empire lost the war with that treaty they signed, so the Thalmor have a right to put their will upon all of the Empire, of which Skyrim belongs unless you side with the Stormcloaks.

Anyway, good and evil is all relative. What I see as good, may be seen as evil by someone else. Just do what you do, as long as it doesn't impact me in a harmful way, I could care less.

These responses don't surprise me really. Our society has gotten to the point where anyone that is a genuinely good and honorable person is looked down upon, viewed almost as though there is something wrong with being that way.

The game is the way it is and I'm fine with that. My comments are directed more at those who try to justify the game as being okay with the game having an evil preference by saying "that's life". There should definitely be good and evil ways to play the game, but I think the developers should have found a better way of rewarding both types of player equally. This isn't real life, it's a game. Can't we at least have some balance?

Just wanted to fix something.

Daedric Princes aren't evil. They simply have free will and they think like mortals think sometimes.

Some of them are good but seem a little like a self-righteous [censored] like Meridia.
There are "good" daedric princes. Azura for example, is good by mortal standarts.
There are "neutral" daedric princes too. Sheogorath isn't exactly evil but is definitely not good. Some daedric princes are either "chaotic" or "lawful" I think Clavicus Vile is a lawful one for example.
Some are simply "evil" like the one we faced in TES:Oblivion; Mehrunes Dagon.
And some are just true neutral.

Good and evil is relative. We shouldn't forget that too. Boethiah is the Daedric Prince who rules over deceit, conspiracy, secret plots of murder, assassination, treason, and unlawful overthrow of authority. Given his sphere of influence, it is possible Boethiah assisted Jagar Tharn in his temporary procurement of the Imperial throne. But despite the dark undertones of his sphere and influence on Tamriel, Boethiah is considered to be one the "good" Daedra. Boethiah is considered to be allied with the Temple of Stendarr (one of the nines) and his enemy is Ebonarm.

I got the info from uesp.net.

You could get really creative and pretend your good character is just infiltrating these bad groups to get to the top and flush them out. That is what I am going to do with my latest Nord warrior. I am also going to do the theifs guild and dark brotherhood quests first, so I have lots of good deeds to make up for the couple of people I have to kill to get to the top. After all, you have to crack a couple eggs to make an omlette right?

Sure you have to do a couple evil deeds and kill a couple people, but think of the lives saved when you are the head of the bad guilds and can force them in a new direction.

Also, in real life the Nords believed in many gods, so you could argue that a Nord could possibly worship a daedric god as well. I see no harm in being a follower of Sanguine especially, he is my kind of god!

My point is that you can create your own situations and reasons for them and get the most out of the game by playing through all of the content, and you can justify your actions by making the plot even deeper for your character. That is the reason I play TES games, the only limiting factor is your imagination.

1 Nietzsche may have said a lot of insightful things, but even he would argue that he's probably made a few errors in his day.
2 I think you undervalue friendship, and in real life if you kill someone, you'll probably be killed or jailed for life.



I disagree a little, but I agree with your important point. I don't think society is evil, but many people seem to think it's funny or cool to be cruel and I think the general message inside the game helps perpetuate that ideology. It would be nice to see some seriously wonderful rewards for playing a saint. Perhaps have the 8 gods of Tamriel each give quests that only purely good characters can follow.

If they wanted it to be more like real life, they could make it so guards can:
1 surround and overpower you no matter how big and powerful you are
2 slap some irons on your wrists
3 throw you in a cell with a bunch of cutthroat bandits that all have the same murderous tendencies as you.

I digress, it's a game, and a wonderfully fun game to play, but I agree with the original message "Skyrim wants you to be bad" and I do wish it rewarded kindness a little more. To be fair, most games actually do condone killing (and oddly enough try to portray something natural like nudity as wrong). I'm not sure how that's going to affect people in the future, but politicians will probably eventually limit our gaming options if we don't start seeing more games with a positive message option.

Dang.

I play a good character all the time, and after reading all these posts, I never thought about that fact that I'm missing out on all this content.

...Ignorance really is bliss.

Yeah, my good warrior char has missed out on the thieves guild, DB and the college (college- not like I'm actually missing much) but I accept that for RP reasons. Which is why I made two more chars :3

Just sayin, but the Dark Brotherhood quests give you the most gold.

1,200 GOLD for killing one person. (Infinite number of times)
20,000 GOLD for killing the last guy. (1 time)

Thieves Guild doesn't compare.

Good, evil, I'm the guy with the two-handed daedric weapon.

GOTTA LOVE ALL OF THE SPOILERS IN A GENERAL THREAD TOO!

:rofl: at title.

I have completed the Companions, DB and Mage Guild quest lines. I really enjoyed the Mage and DB quest lines. I liked the story, ate up a lof the fluff and got a lot out of it.

I was sort of shocked at how, short, easy and unrewarding the Companion quest line turned out to be. It felt, rushed to me.

This.

Evil characters get most of the content.

Pretty much this -

I feel as if giving into the dark side is rewarded via content heavily in Skyrim. As just a general sniff test I have been in contact with three Daedra, two joinable factions that take part in assassination vs no Aedra I not being able to join the vigilentes of stendarr. I'm totally biting my tongue at the pretty lame portrayal of faith as a concept in Skyrim too as it's more of an industry wide problem, not Bethesda in particular.

I thought the Mages Guild was incredibly lame, not due to lack of rewards, but rather lack of content. Wasn't a fan of it's main quest line either. I also am sick of being given leadership of the guild, I don't want to be the damn arch mage.

I haven't completed any of the others, but on my current character I decided to grudgingly give the Thieves Guild a chance and so far it's looking more promising. I like that you can get lots of smaller side assignments.

This is the reason for multiple playthroughs. My first character was the quintessential Nord hero. He avoided evil questlines and fought for what was right. It was a very enjoyable experience, although I missed a considerable amount of the content. For that reason, my next playthrough is a nefarious Dunmer assassin, so I will get to complete the portions of the game I could not earlier. I like this because it gives characters more individuality and increases play time by allowing, perhaps pushing, multiple playthroughs.

This>>>>>> "This is the reason for multiple playthroughs."

I have 2 going on at once.

Nord Paladin type (neutral/good) bound by honor and duty to do what is right and fight evil.

Imperial Assassin (chatoic/evil) values power and riches, only code of honor is to kill quickly and silently.


So far I am having a completly differnet experience and enjoying both. I find it very rewarding and freeing not to have to try and do everyting on one character. I can take different paths sometimes leading to the same result and other times not.

haha have fun

oblivion had fame and infamy. Unless I missed it, those are completely absent from this game. So there is literally no reason not to go around killing and stealing from everyone...

That's what people try to convince themselves of these days.

This is what I'm doing. Since my build starts the game off being wrongly accused to be executed simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, he starts out with this huge chip on his shoulder where he's pissed at anything with a pulse. So he joins the Brotherhood to get his kill on. Then he'll relish being a Daedra lacky because he hates everything anyway. So the first part of his character growth starts off as nihilistic. He'll join the Thieves next, because while they're still somewhat villainous, at least they try not to kill unless absolutely necessary and even then, if it can't be avoided. So that'll start playing on my build's psyche. After the Thieves questline, he'll discover there are nice folk out there in Balgruuf (for example) and he'll start his heel-face turn. Then once he discovers he's Dragonborn, he'll start using his gift for the benefit of all. During his enlightenment of The Voice, that's also when he'll expand his knowledge of magic, and maybe even hit the Bards College to cap it all off. Oh and of course run through the Companions story as well since they're awesome, money or not. At least they have honor! So he starts off as an evil pissed off dude, but through his travels and quests, beings to see the light and to help his fellow man! Yeah I took the role-playing to a nerd level, I know!

Because then you get the evil rewards, but then turn your life around for the good of all!

I'm not an immoral person in real life nor do I condone immorality. I do however understand Nietzsches reasoning for his statement and it does seem to be true. I think it's simply obvious that the person who is good and doesn't lie, cheat, and steal will have less wealth than the person who does lie, cheat, and steal.

That's why the Illuminati is so powerful and prosperous, because they screw us over and then they get the lavish lifestyles. There's very few routes on the good road to gain wealth. Obviously there are those few sages and strong men who were good, but far less than the large membership of the Illuminati.

In videogames though, I must admit, it is enjoyable being "evil" simply because it's funny (like GTA and beating up homeless people with a bat), not because I revel in evil. Sometimes it's just fun to do things in videogames you could never be away with in real life.


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Hircine is Neutral really, all he does is hunt. He can only be called Neutral because he brought Lycanthropy to Tamriel, which could be called an evil act.

Not sure what TC is talking about. Also, Daedra are neither good, or evil.