Just curious if someone has the stats with all proper perks taken for comparison between the two guns?

Of course. What do you want? Damage, base DPS, Crit adjusted DPS, Crit + reload adjusted DPS? What perks/ammo/chems you want?

-Gunny

Well I play stealth so i'd use them as either a back-up to whatever sniper style rifle I'm using as well as a silent indoor or enclosed spaced weapon. I use VATS alot so often go for VATS related perks and starting traits. I also always take Logan's Loophole since it's addition as I like the challenge of not maxing out every skill and being very choosy about what Perks I do take. I guess I'm looking for sneak critical outside of VATS and DPS in VATS? I'll take Finesse, Better Critacals, Professional, etc.. The only Perk I won't take to boost damage is Bloody Mess. I also won't augment with clothing or armor as I usually wear the Assassins Armour. I hope that's enough to go on and thanks for the help, I have read your calculations in other posts and hoped you would reply.

OK, with damage perks limited to those listed (any other perks will multiply each weapon equally anyways) I've got, for a SAC with HP:

Sleepytime 431 damage
12.7mm+ 706 damage

I don't have DPS in VATS, per say, but I do calculate damage inflicted in one rounds of vats. Using a base AP of 95, this is what I got (no sneak, no headshot):

Sleepytime 616 damage
12.7mm+ 567 damage

I'll also show you DPS outside of VATS adjusted for crit rate (10 luck) and reloads (10 agility, no rapid reload):

Sleepytime 300 DPS
12.7mm+ 442 DPS

I'd say if you're using primarily VATS, go with Sleepytime. If you use it in real time, go with 12.7mm+

-gunny

Thanks for the info. One other thing if you can? What is max damage on sneak critical head shot from Trail Carbine and Ratslayer without chem use and appropriate Perks? Again thanks for the help.

Do you mean without chem use and without appropriate perks or without chem use and with appropriate perks?

-gunny

Without chem use and with appropriate Perks

Without chem use and with appropriate Perks. Thanks

Gunny is the 12.7mm SMG non-GRA version affected by the grunt perk? If yes wouldn't the vanilla version be the better choice with a character who has that perk? I ask because although I love the newer GRA version it would make more sense to stick with the older version if its dealing more damage. And they both use silencer/suppressor mods so for a stealthy character it makes little different in choice unless you have the grunt perk.

One of the coolest things about Sleepytime is its improved holdout weapon status making it one of the better weapons to get into a casino with. I always take it with me when visiting the Strip along with my Super-heated Saturnite fist (with Pyromaniac perk its righteously deadly).

Nope. Grunt perk is essentially for 9mm, .45 auto, 5.56mm and 40mm weapons. If it ain't one of those, it ain't on Grunt. (well, except the 12.7mm chambered unique service rifle)

Trail Carbine slays Ratslayer in a straight up SAC headshot. It's got about half the damage, half the crit damage and the TC gets x1.25 dam from cowboy.

Trail Carbine 1420 dam
Ratslayer 544 dam

-Gunny

Hey Gunny, thanks a lot

:thumbsup: