Slightly concerned about the finishers, and their effect on : V - Skyrim

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:26 pm

finishers, if done correctly, will make combat more interesting and less repetitive. in order to be done correctly they need to be completely optional, optional 3rd person, optional slow time, and have to be fast enough to avoid 'temporary invulnerability' ( if a finisher is too slow, then the only way to balance it is with temp invuln, which is something i don't want in)

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:38 am

Aspects that become boring in a game are completely inevitable. I played Morrowind so much I cant count it on hours, and it had aspects I got sick of. I tolerated them because the game was great And I wanted to advance. Thats inevitable.

I vomit everytime someone says "if done correctly", as if anyone here had all the answers in the universe. Ever heard of a thing called "subjectivity"?

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:40 pm

If finishers are esporadic and/or the player has total control over them, I don′t see why they can ruin replay value.
If they happen all the time automatically, that′s another story...

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:34 pm

Your thoughts?

I pretty much disagree with everything you said. :goodjob: The finishers are much more reminiscent of DA:O than the Fallout 3 type finishers folks seem to be expecting, I'm going to enjoy them. Makes for great screenshot fodder, plus the chance of the extremely talented mod'ers to make custom finishing moves? Yes please!

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:59 am

Finishers will ABSOLUTELY get boring after a while.

they are too static in nature to entertain after the 50th time.

hope they can be turned off.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:19 am

I dont know why any sane perdon would want to turn em off. They cant be worse than watching enemies die in a floaty rag dolly way a million times over. Finishers just add more flare in the grindfest.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:16 pm

Short answer is I like them, they look cool. Only thing that may bug me is I like to play in 1st person, so forcing 3rd person will kill immersion, but I think I can live with it.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:39 am

I dont know why any sane perdon would want to turn em off. They cant be worse than watching enemies die in a floaty rag dolly way a million times over. Finishers just add more flare in the grindfest.

Well i do know why a sane person would want them off, because they find ragdoll more fun than a scripted animation that is repeated ad infinitum, i can also understand why a sane person would want finishers included, because they prefer them to the way the ragdoll looks and acts, they are just opinions.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:04 am

I dont mind the quick stab finishing moves, and the bash on the head type (if thats a finishing move) but the one on the dragon was hideous. Not just by the way it looked (it didnt look too bad), but I hate the way that you clearly lose control of your character for a considerable amount of time, while you watch him do his own thing...I think they should just be slightly more extravagant than you normal slash and bash moves, like the ones I mention at the start, basically just an extension of combat that are over within a second or two, rather than a cut-scene.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:45 am

Well i do know why a sane person would want them off, because they find ragdoll more fun than a scripted animation that is repeated ad infinitum, i can also understand why a sane person would want finishers included, because they prefer them to the way the ragdoll looks and acts, they are just opinions.

funny, yes but also strangely out of context.
for example a sneak attack from oblivion is equivalent to punching/slashing the spine of the enemy with a force visually similar to a steamroller.
at least now an assassin can grab and slash a neck.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:20 pm

How in the hell are finishers an indication of how long we will play?

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 3:27 am

Long story short, i think they may become boring and are both a negative and unnecessary feature as a result, no matter how spectacular they may look at first, repetition will make for eventual disatisfaction.

With rag-doll there is always at least a small difference in the death animation, sometimes with a funny moment when your enemy rolls down a cliff or ends up in a funny postion, finishers are going to limit and affect this by forcing the same animation over and again.

Rag-doll may not be as immediately spectacular as new finishers, but more interesting in the long term and better for the longevity of the game,

Could finishers be an indication that we are not expected to play the game for as long as we did previous versions of the series? dah dah dahhhhhhhhhh! (drama!)

Your thoughts?

So wait, you feel that if you had finisher you would be tirelessly repeating the same motion over and over again.....you mean....like pressing the right trigger and slashing?

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 4:56 am

How in the hell are finishers an indication of how long we will play?

It can get tiresome to watch the exact same move happen without your control (since finishing moves are automatic) over and over, again and again.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:53 pm

It can get tiresome to watch the exact same move happen without your control (since finishing moves are automatic) over and over, again and again.

Depends. I would agree that the slow-mo kills in FO got tiresome after a while. What we have seen for Skyrim so far is very different, it's just a fancy animation. I'll get bored with the standard casting/attcking animations long before I get tired of the finishers.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:01 am

Because seeing the ragdoll just slumping around won't ever get boring...(yes, they do)
And what does this have to do with replayability? You won't play the game again, because you're so bored of the finishing moves? Or you always start over just so you can see more ragdolls?

Personally I'd rather have my sword feel like a sharp blade, instead of a dull one made out of rubber, and enemies won't just unceremoniously fall down.
And really, god of war like finshers and quick time events to make it more dynamic, won't make you any more in control...
You already start the finishing move yourself by landing the last blow.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:26 am

It really depends on how often they occur and how long the animation lasts. I really, really hate it though when my character gets attacked and can't do anything about it because my character is busy completing a cosmetic animation.

The most "rewarding" feedback I've ever experience in combat is the sound I'd get when my character crit from stealth. That never got old.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:09 pm

It's the jarring cut to 3rd person that bothers me most, but I can see even 1st person finishers getting old after the 50th time you've seen them. An option to toggle them off would be welcome.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:27 pm

Finishers are only cool if a dominant male voice of God rings out from the speakers saying things like "AW-AW-AWESOMEE!!" or "SWORDINATED" or "PWNED THAT ASS" as you kill them. Then fireworks explode and you hear a crowd cheer in the background and big arrows blink at your character then chicks run up to you taking their tops off jumping up an down.

This may not happen in Skyrim, but maybe the next ES game.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:04 am

If I can stay in first person all the time, I'm okay with it.

^This, i also hope you can control when you want to do them, if not then it's going to become really boring and annoying really fast...

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:12 am

I think they look fine.

For me, combat has been the only weak point of TES.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:29 pm

This forum is full of bigheads, some people need to keep their smart ass comments to themselves. Anyway, this is an RPG is it not? And one of an RPGs main goal is immersion? So then why should something as silly as cosmetic frills, which will definitely kill immersion for many, many people, including me, be a non avoidable feature of the game? At the very least they need to be toned down and not be forced out of 1st person (just speculation that it does) , at least ones like the dragon finisher in the demo. Ideally Bethesda should put a choice at the start of the game.

» Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:51 pm

The first person finishers looked awesome: The retreating thief getting a blade in the kidney. The shielded bandit getting gutted. The undead monster getting an axe in the head. Those were very slick and your character transitioned into them perfectly. Even if those are the only ones I'd gladly watch them over seeing my opponent awkwardly ragdoll over after my final slash to his arm, shoulder or big toe. A cool finisher makes my victory seem far more authentic and brutal.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:55 am

I don't mind having finishers, I like it, but as long as you don't HAVE to use them every time you kill. That would be annoying.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:03 am

This forum is full of bigheads, some people need to keep their smart ass comments to themselves. Anyway, this is an RPG is it not? And one of an RPGs main goal is immersion? So then why should something as silly as cosmetic frills, which will definitely kill immersion for many, many people, including me, be a non avoidable feature of the game? At the very least they need to be toned down and not be forced out of 1st person (just speculation that it does) , at least ones like the dragon finisher in the demo. Ideally Bethesda should put a choice at the start of the game.

Imo, Bethesda should do it either through related perks or a gameplay setting. I think a gameplay setting should be like how Obsidian did it with the kill cam (where you could disable slow motion effects, forced third person and the whole kill cam itself... seperately).

These things are so intrusive and can change the whole feel and "immersion" of combat. Finishing moves also very controversial, especially how they can force you into third person. Therefore... finishing moves (and all their respective parts) really should be optional, one way or another.

» Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:00 am

I don't think they'll get boring. If it were like Assassins Creed where, more or less, every kill you make in combat (ie. not stealth) resulted in a finisher animation then it would get boring, yes. Skyrim will hardly be like that though, or so I hope.