I've taken some posts out (not as much as I'd intended - but my browser messed up, and I'm certainly not going back through 9 pages to find them again.)

Let's play nice, okay guys?

It's called a difference of opinion - which means there's no reason for anyone to be making comments that are insulting, derisive, or dismissive of someone else's opinion.

If all you look at is the superficial fluff of better animations....then, yes, SR magic is better.

If you decide to step out of that box and move beyond.....then, sorry, SR magic is garbage.

Also, if you haven't noticed, one of the primary attractions of previous magic systems was the ability to use spellmaking to move beyond the cookie cutter spells. That ability has been sadly cut out. The fluffy bells and whistles does not make up for this loss.

Went to do



so I could get the Alteration spell



since none of my current alteration spells are useful in combat (got over 567 armor so flesh spells don't help me and I don't have paralyze yet) but I found out the spell mentioned in the 2nd spoiler doesn't seem to be leveling my alteration skill, be it in or out of combat... I guess I'm down to only using 1 spell, Paralyze, to level my alteration unless I want to grind the skill out of combat by spamming telekinesis on things. Better go to the college and pick it up.

Hasn't anyone else run into such a massive roadblock with any of the spell schools where there is only 1 useful spell left to use in combat ?

SR is Moron Magic. There really is no better way to describe it.

Spellmaking being axed would not be a big problem if they actually made a system that did not need it. But they did nothing of the sort. :confused:

So why do people only see how it's "more pretty", when it's about a lot more than that.

Continous spray, walls, chain lightning, fire that ignites oil, character centric AoE, projectiles that pass trough the target, projectiles that gets to the target instantly...

That gives more tactical choice than putting several effects into a single ball, then hoping that ball hits the enemy.

For spellmaking to work, and actually be usable, it HAS to be cookie cutter, generic, following a set form, otherwise it would be too complicated, hard to use and even potentially broken.

I am not playing as a mage but I like the reduction of magic.

Quite francly, magic was way overpowered in Oblivion and Morrowind. My first and only char in Oblivion was an Altmer Mage and I can't even imagine playing another char in this game.
In Morrowind this was another matter (due to magicka not regenerating over time), but Morrowind had other problems. You literally HAD to use magic. Ever tried playing a Barbarian in Morrowind? Without Mark/Recall/Devine & Almsivi Intervention? Having to run all the time is not fun.

100% Chameleon? Constant Effect Invisibility? Constant Effect Levitation? Yeah nice to have, but it changes the way you play, whether you like it or not.

I am playing Melee Type in Skyrim now (Sword and Shield, occasional Bow). I freaking love it so far (Level 22).

You all are just pissed that you can't cheat using magic anymore (like you could in the previous TES games) :biggrin:

I have now played over 250 hours and played characters of mostly mage, archer, 2h, 2x1h, and not only has it been over simplified its been badly done. The merit worthy aspect of this game is the world the dungeons and the artwork.
The UI was imported from 1988 who ever was in charge must have either had a very small budget or where planning on early retirement.
Combat system is terrible, one of the main advertisemants for this game was the dual wield, dual spell which in practice is rubbish.
The NPC lack any depth of character and annoy me to distraction with the same phrase over and over with barely a pause.
The perks, skills and talent trees are badly presented and badly made with so much of them being redundant leaving viable character builds very limited unless you want to play on novice.

Game sure svcks bro.
But on the bright side: since the police forced you at gunpoint to play it for 250 hours - you now have an informed opinion on the game.

well it one way to tone down spellmaking for either DLC (as I don't see another way of us getting it) or a mod would be not to allow mixing multi elements together.

But I could definately see more interesting spells like Self aura heal ally or heal spray rather then touch. Also something that could be added like runes is placement spells (I think theres a master heal placement spell that heals over time and repels undead) specifically a paralyze rune would be cool.

I played perfectly fine pure warriors in both Morrowind and Oblivion. Also if you can play a pure warrior without troubles in Skyrim then what would keep you from continuing to do that if the magic system got updated ? Also this is not about power, if I want to cheat I will open up the console and type in tgm, but this is about having options when it comes to magic. Also as a warrior you can get alchemy + smithing + enchanting and "cheat" as you would call it when someone abuses the system to become overpowered, why have you not mentioned that being bad in this game ? If I could have a guess I'd say because you either A: Didn't know about it and were having a fun time playing without that knowledge, or B: You knew about it but have the strength of will to ignore abusing it to become overpowered.

If you have said strength of will you could easily apply it to Morrowind and Oblivion to skip using 100% chameleon and such, the only one who can make you do that is yourself.



A game can be good yet have bad features, there is a middle way, not only "totally bad" and "totally awesome". Skyrim has many awesome features, but it also has many bad features. Such as the current magic system.

I didn't make a single potion so far and only enchanted iron daggers which I sold to get more gold.

And you are right, I never had 100% chameleon in Morrowind (or just for 5 min to fool around and then load a previous savegame), but this is just the most obvious (because totally gamebreaking) example - I will give a better one at the end of my post.



I can't really comment on the magic system as didn't try a mage so far. But I like the scarcity of magic from a Lore viewpoint (this is Skyrim not Summerset Isle).

I also like it from a gameplay-related point of view. If you can do everything with magic all other styles of play become obsolete. I had to literally force myself to use lockpicks in Morrowind. What's the point if you can enchant a ring with Open Lock 100 within your first hours of playing? That's what I mean by "cheating with magic".

This is obviously a design error in the execution of the open spell + the enchanting system rather than a design error in the concept itself. In Skyrim Bethesda just shouldn't let you enchant a ring with open lock 100 unless you really worked for it.

Also a great deal of things should be left out if no one has the will to ignore them but those that do have the will to ignore them should have the option to play in another way than the easiest way, to continue with lockpicking...

Open spells didnt make lock picking obsolete, or vice verse. And Burt, a pure mage should be able to be anybody else, especially through restoration (a bunch of spells we don't even have anymore). Mages are the most powerful people in the games and lore. Their only weakness is their magicka pool. No play style choice makes any other obsolete. With this logic, there's no reason to have more than one weapon type, or even builds for that matter.

As a long time Elder Scrolls fan, I too have to agree with the OP sentiments that playing the Mage character has been significantly weakened in Skyrim. First by weakening the default spells and second by not allowing us to create our own spells. If I as a gamer want to play a pure Mage and create spells for my benefit that allow me to kill a Daedra Lord in a single shot, then I should be able to do that (albeit only at very high levels). And really how can having MORE spells and choices make the game be less fun? I don't understand that concept. This is a single player game, play it however you like. If you think spells are too boring or powerful, then don't use them! Go and play a fighter or archer and enjoy!

To summarize, Elder Scrolls games were always about choice, and by limiting choices in Skyrim, especially one as significant as spell making, Bethesda has created a game that is much less enjoyable to play. Just my .02.

Levitation. Man, I miss being able to walk on air. It was a real bummer that it got left out of Oblivion, too.
Feather. Everyone needs to be able to lighten his load. It's a core spell.
Chameleon. Loved being sorta-invisible and a lot harder to detect.
Shield. I know that there are wards, but I loved enchanting armor with generic shield and making you very hard to hit.

I really miss spellmaking in this game. i believe that magic and all of the possibilities that spellmaking makes possible to be one of the things that makes The Elder Scrolls games so much fun. I can't believe they left it out of Skyrim. Major bummer.

We really should make a complete list of things that need to change with the magic system for the when the kit comes out. Like for instance, the sad and depressing fact that dual casting actually screws you over more than that just single casting. Who overlooked that one?

And then the spellmaking loss is one of the first things that I cried about (figuratively) about 10 hours in when I learned it didn't exist. And the loss of so many cool spell effects. Dragon Age 2 had a more varied spell collection.

You, because you forgot to take the perk that makes dual casting useful.

I just went ahead and got the Paralyze spell.

310 mana and I have 290 mana.

0 Spells in the Alteration tree that I can find useful in combat...

/sigh

Oh and about the perk making dual casting useful Bukee, I have the one for restoration and doing a dual cast quick heal fills my life just as much as doing two normal heals but costs more mana. Now when I need to heal I don't press the mouse buttons at the same time but rather press one half a second after I press the first one so that I end up casting two smaller spells for less mana but the same effect. Dual casting needs to be buffed if it's supposed to work properly.

Who needs extra armor during combat anyway :rolleyes:

Well I don't really need it but after summoning my flame atronach to fight two mudcrabs and seeing them kill it before it managed to kill either of them (yes I know it's supposed to be a glass cannon but that's what Alteration is supposed to fix) I'm starting to think it would be nice to be able to throw a little bit of extra defense on my summons or other companion I may come across.

as far as i can observe from most of the big games titles these days, PC gaming is dying due to the increase number of console gamer. games now days are mostly "idiot proof". all the games now days i was so excited about are all quite disappointing

lets just have faith on the modding commuities.

The thing about a lot of those red response statements is that they contain the words "there's a potion for that", if I'm an elemental illusionist mage with a sideline in alteration for example, I don't necessarily want to have to be an accomplished apothecarist and be weighed down by hundreds of potions and ingredients to do what could once be done by developing my abilities in certain schools of magic and casting an appropriately leveled spell. To infer that people shouldn't be upset by the omission of so many forms of magic underestimates the impact it has had on certain gameplay styles and it goes against the marketing hyperbole of play it your way, how you want.

LMAO, if they try to charge me for spell making in a DLC they won't get any money from me ever again. That would just mean they left it out on purpose to get more money as far as I'm concerned. There is no way in [censored] hell I'm gonna pay to make spells. I don't care if everyone sings the praises of the DLC as the best add-on ever made. I've said before that the game industry is starting to feel more like a con game than an industry. The list of games I'll actually pay for shrinks every year because I refuse to buy certain games on principle. Hell if I knew a game as great as Batman: Arkham City had a one time DLC code to punish "borrowers" and "used buyers" I would never have bought it. Just like I'm not buying Assassin's Creed: Revelations on principle. Ubi you lost my business. Screw them all, you don't get my money for what amount to dirty tricks. Gears of War 3 is a great game, and the only reason I didn't go completely ape [censored] over it having DLC on disk is because they pushed the game back 6 months to make sure it was great. (I'll give them the benifit of the doubt on that particular DLC and believe that they stuck it on there for end user convienience).

There is no consumer protection for software. Buyer beware.

I'd like to have 'Damage' spells back, as well as fortify spells.

Damage health/magicka/fatigue was great, becuase it was non-elemental destruction spells. As it stands now destruction is just an elemental skill with little variety. And to be honest I don't like the frost drains stamina and shock drains magicka.
Why are shock spells draining magicka? how does this make sense?

I also used to play a ranger class with skill in restoration. Fortify speed and fortify strength were common use for me. A speed boost to run down, or escape a powerful enemy, fortify strength for extra hitting power against daedra.

I like some of the new 'casting types' like the flames spell. but it would have been so much better with spell crafting and many of the previous spell types.

Nothing. There's nothing that would need to be removed...unless they want to "balance" it out by trashing what the physical abilities are able to get away with.

I think it's a good thing that I never finished Oblivion. It bored me to tears for the most part, yet after slogging through 100+ hours in this game, all I can think is "uh yeah, the aesthetics and Archery is nice...everything else is pretty much a backstep". I never finished Oblivion, but the complete lack of real character customization is mind-boggling bad in this game. Going to install Warcry/MMM/OOO/Frans etc with the best texture packs and leveling mods and give it another shot. At least I'll be able to play the caster, I want to play. I also never went overboard with the mass insta kill or perma invis type stuff either. I always knew how to moderate myself, but I still had around 20x more choice than I do now.

The only thing that I was really looking forward to in this game was:

1. Improved combat (it has, but not enough to matter one bit)
2. Perks/improved leveling system. This isn't really that much better. It's much worse in some ways, better in others.

The only thing this game truly does better than Oblivion is aesthetics. It's truly outstanding in this game...but I want a little gameplay to go with my eyecandy. One could argue about the scaled leveling and the loot lists, but it's awful in both games. Who cares if in Oblivion you see a bandit in glass armor? In this game I get 5g and a gem for opening a master lock and can also create gear that eclipses anything I can possibly find. Loot is dull, dull, dull in both games (without mods).

The CK can't get here soon enough.