A small observation on the amount of spells in the game : V

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:24 am

First of all, sorry for making another Skyrim VS "older TES game" thread but this is the first and probably last one of that sort that I will make, I just feel that this needs to be addressed and that peoples opinions of this need to be heard.

So today I noticed I have 600 armor rating yet I decided early on in the game to go for as much defense as possible so I also went for Alteration magic. "No sweat, I still have use for Alteration magic, I'll just go grab a shield spell that I can throw on my atronachs so that I can have a good reason for leveling this skill as I play while still playing according to my desired playstyle."

So I went on a search for a shield spell that could be cast "on target", sadly there was not a single such spell in the entire game, so I decided to count up the spells in Oblivion and the spells in Skyrim to see what other spells I might be lacking, these are the results.

I first counted up the spells in Skyrim, a grand total of 91 if I ignored spells that had the same level and effect but simply a different radius but there were only two spells I had to remove from the list by doing that both of which were undead repel spells and I ignored "Fade Other" which is listed on the UESP as a spell that didn't make it into the game.

Here is the Skyrim list.

Spoiler

Skyrim Spells: 91 total different spells where each different range of a spell is merged together (only happens with two spells in the restoration school) and "Fade Other" from the UESP is ignored.

-Alteration: 15 total different spells
Light = Novice*on-self+Apprentice*on-target = 2 total
Detect Dead = Expert*on-self = 1 total
Detect Life = Adept*on-self = 1 total
Shield = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Equilibrium = Novice*on-self = 1 total
Paralyze = Expert*on-target+Master*on-target = 2 total
Telekinesis = Adept*on-target = 1 total
Transmute = Adept*on-self = 1 total
Waterbreathing = Adept*on-self = 1 total

-Conjuration: 22 total different spells
Banish Daedra = Adept+Expert*on-target = 2 total
Bound Battleaxe = Apprentice*on-self = 1 total
Bound Bow = Adept*on-self = 1 total
Bound Sword = Novice*on-self = 1 total (Note: this was two handed in Oblivion but not one handed like in Skyrim, that why it gets the yellow new spell mark)
Command Daedra = Expert*on-target = 1 total
Conjure Dragon Priest = Expert*on-self = 1 total
Conjure Dremora Lord = Expert*on-self = 1 total
Conjure Familiar = Novice*on-self = 1 total
Conjure Flame Atronach = Apprentice+Master*on-self = 2 total
Conjure Frost Atronach = Adept+Master*on-self = 2 total
Conure Storm Atronach = Expert+Master*on-self = 2 total
Raise Zombie = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert*on-self = 4 total
Dead Thrall = Master*on-self = 1 total (new but only to an extent, no yellow mark)
Flaming Familiar = Apprentice*on-self = 1 total
Soul Trap = Apprentice*on-target = 1 total

-Destruction: 24 total different spells (no yellow marks, touch spells and the area of spells are not specified in the Oblivion list, else I'd have to increase that list by a lot if I started marking yellow here based on the area of the spells)
Flames = Novice+Expert*streaming = 2 total
Firebolt = Apprentice+Adept+Expert*on-target = 3 total
Fire Rune = Apprentice*on-terrain = 1 total
Flame Cloak = Adept+Master*on-self = 2 total
Frostbite = Novice+Expert*streaming = 2 total
Ice Spike = Apprentice+Adept+Expert*on-target = 3 total
Frost Rune = Apprentice*on-terrain = 1 total
Frost Cloak = Adept+Master*on-self = 2 total
Sparks = Novice+Expert*streaming = 2 total
Lighting Bolt = Apprentice+Adept+Expert*on-target = 3 total
Lighting Runes = Apprentice*on-terrain = 1 total
Lightning Cloak = Adept+Master*on-self = 2 total

-Illusion: 15 total different spells
Call to Arms = Master*on-self = 1 total (not really a new effect, simply two existing effects combined into one such as was possible in Oblivion, no yellow mark)
Calm = Apprentice+Expert+Master*on-target= 3 total
Clairvoyance = Novice*on-self = 1 total
Courage = Novice+Adept*on-target = 2 total
Fear = Apprentice+Expert+Master*on-target = 3 total
Fury = Novice+Adept+Master*on-target = 3 total
Invisibility = Expert*on-self = 1 total
Muffle = Apprentice*on-self = 1 total

-Restoration: 15 total different spells (many spells here are just two effects in one, those don't get a yellow mark)

Healing = Novice*on-self = 1 total
Ward = Novice+Apprentice+Adept*streaming = 3 total
Fast Healing = Apprentice+Adept*on-self = 2 total
Healing Hands = Apprentice*on-target = 1 total
Turn/Repel Undead = Apprentice+Adept+Expert*on-target = 3 total
Heal Other = Adept*on-target = 1 total
Circle of Protection = Expert*on-self = 1 total
Grand Healing = Expert*on-self = 1 total
Bane of the Undead = Master*on-target = 1 total
Guardian Circle = Master*on-self = 1 total

As you can see I grouped them together by the level of difficulty the spells take as it would be desired to have each spells in every difficulty, I myself am finding the "Healing" spell running useless for me so I no longer have a streaming healing spell to resort to and only spam Fast Healing for my healing needs these days. I did the same for the Oblivion list and in both lists I ignore radius as in Oblivion a spell could have 1 radius, then 2, then 3... etc essentially bloating the list beyond what it should be, which quite frankly would be unfair for Skyrim.

Here is the Oblivion list.

Spoiler

Oblivion spells: 2314 total different spells if the skills and attribute system of Oblivion is used, 15014 total different spells that could be transfered from Oblivion which could work in Skyrim. The radius of spells is ignored as if I counted that too (and I did not for the Skyrim counting) I'd nearly double the amount of spells.

-Alteration: 130 total different spells
Burden = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Feather = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Shield = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Fire Shield = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total (for the sake of fairness these shield spells were just shield + spell resistance in one, so no green mark)
Frost Shield = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Shock Shield = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Open = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Waterbreathing = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Water Walking = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total

-Conjuration: 165 total different spells
Bound Axe = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Boots = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Bow = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Cuirass = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Dagger = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Gauntlets = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Greaves = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Helmet = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Mace = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Shield = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Bound Sword = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total (Note: This was 2 handed in Oblivion, that's why it's marked green despite there being a "Bound Sword" spell in Skyrim)
Summon Clannfear = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Daedroth = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Dremora = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Dremora Lord = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Faded Wraith = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Flame Atronach = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Frost Atronach = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Storm Atronach = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Ghost = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Gloom Wraith = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Headless Zombie = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Lich = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Scamp = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Skeleton = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Skeleton Champion = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Skeleton Guardian = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Skeleton Hero = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Spider Daedra = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Xivilai = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Summon Zombie = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Turn Undead = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total

-Destruction: 750 total different spells if applied to Oblivion, 390 total different spells if applied to Skyrim
Damage Fatigue = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Damage Health = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Damage Magicka = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Drain Fatigue = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Drain Health = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Fire Damage = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Frost Damage = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Shock Damage = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Weakness to Disease = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Weakness to Fire = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Weakness to Frost = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Weakness to Shock = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Weakness to Magic = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Weakness to Poison = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total
Drain Skill = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*21 or 18 depending on if the skills in Oblivion or Skyrim are used = 180 or 210 total
Drain Attribute = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self*10 = 150 total (ignored for Skyrim)
Damage Attribute = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self*10 = 150 total (ignored for Skyrim)
Disintigrate Armor = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total (ignored for Skyrim)
Disintigrate Weapon = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self*on-target*on-touch = 15 total (ignored for Skyrim)

-Illusion: 150 total different spells
Calm = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Chameleon = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Charm = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Command Creature = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Command Humanoid = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Demoralize = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Frenzy = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Invisibility = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Light = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Night-Eye = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-self = 5 total
Paralyze = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Rally = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Silence = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total

-Restoration: 1029 different spells if applied to Oblivion, 739 total different spells if applied to Skyrim
Absorb Fatigue = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-touch = 5 total
Absorb Health = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-touch = 5 total
Cure Disease = Journeyman*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 3 total
Cure Paralysis = Apprentice*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 3 total
Cure Poison = Apprentice*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 3 total
Fortify Fatigue = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Fortify Health = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Fortify Magicka = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Restore Fatigue = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Restore Health = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Disease = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Fire = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Frost = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Shock = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Magic = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Paralysis = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Resist Poison = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Absorb Skill = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self*21 for Oblivion or 18 for Skyrim = 315 for Oblivion or 270 for Skyrim
Fortify Skill = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self*21 for Oblivion or 18 for Skyrim = 315 for Oblivion or 270 for Skyrim
Absorb Attribute = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-touch*10 = 50 total (ignored for Skyrim)
Fortify Attribute = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self*10 = 150 total (ignored for Skyrim)

Mysicism: 75 total different spells
Detect Life = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Dispel = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Reflect Spell = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Soul Trap = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch = 10 total
Spell Absorption = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target*on-touch*on-self = 15 total
Telekeniesis = Novice+Apprentice+Adept+Expert+Master*on-target = 5 total

A lot of these spells may seem silly but I decided to include every single spell because in some cases a spell that would seem to be only bad for you can help you with a quest, taking for example the Daedric Prince quest for Namira in Oblivion where you are required to have 20 or less personality, at which as "Damage Personality on self" comes in handy. Also many spells can be useful for roleplaying purposes ignoring their usefulness in combat or in questing.

Now there are a lot of new spells in Skyrim but they fall short when they get outdated or you are unable to get lesser versions of them yet are not skilled enough to cast the real version (I'm sure I'm not the only one who in Morrowind or Oblivion used to buy summon spells above his levels and then created versions that lasted shorter than the default version allowing you to cast something like a Golden Saint without being a master at Conjuration (even if it only lasted 12 seconds or so

)) and I personally find that Skyrim could have done with a lot more spells. From my list I concluded that even without the new spells, if a version of every single possible spell for every single skill level had been done for Skyrim using only Oblivion spells it would have been possible to make as many as 1499 spells (in Oblivion due to attributes and there being 3 more skills it was actually possible to make 2299 different spells that could fit the purposes of mages of different skill and level) and that is about 16,45 times more spells than there are in Skyrim right now, adding the new spells and a ranked version of each one would have pushed that even further.

The reason I left "on touch" in my counting of the Oblivion spell despite it not being in Skyrim is because Skyrim offers new ways to cast spells that could easily replace it such as the spells that target terrain and those spells such as Flames that cause a magical effect in a cone in front of the caster which could just as well be counted as touch in my opinion. And even then if I am being unfair you could take away 3/4th of the spells I listed in the Oblivion list and you'd still be left with more than double the spells of Skyrim, and that's only the potential spells of Skyrim.

It wouldn't be hard to push the spell count of Skyrim up with even the most mundane of spells in my opinion without there being a need for bringing spell making back into the game (even if it would be nice), it's already 5 spells extra to the Skyrim spell repertory if a Novice, Apprentice, Adept, Expert and Master version was made of the Shield spell that could be cast on other targets and that's just one example of many. So what do you guys think ? Are there any minor spells you never imagined wouldn't be in the game, that you would like to see in Skyrim and do you think that Bethesda didn't really realize just how many spells were being left out by removing spellmaking without making sure every popular area of spells was covered ?

Edit: Some numbers updated and I updated the thread by highlighting some of the spells with these color codes. Green = spell we could have had but didn't have (then I mean spells, not shouts, potions or racial abilities), Red = spells we couldn't have have because of the differences between Skyrim and Oblivion, Yellow = spells we got in Skyrim that were not in Oblivion.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:54 am

The removal of spellmaking has removed the magic from TES.

I have said that before the game was out, and now I have played 150 hours this opinion has not changed.

Its.. plasmids.
Its streamlining, its simplification, call it what you want.
In the end we have gone from a magic system that allowed you to do anything to a totally boxed in one.
And the saddest part is that other games have better magic systems.
It is sheer unbelievable, and 10 years ago would have been laughable, that another gamemaker would have more diverse, interesting and useful magic than TES.

Blast it, why cant I dismiss my familiar when I want to?
Why cant I cast waterbreathing, or anything pre-set as on other on a follower?
Where is waterwalking?
Where is open?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:59 am

Dragon age had more and better spells

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:34 pm

Dragon age had more and better spells

The beginning spells of Dragon Age 1 did not get useless as your character progressed.
There was a lot of diversity in effects, and there were effects that interacted to create a third effect.
Instead of the percolator, selecting a spell allowed the next spell in that tree, if conditions in attributes are met.

This branching tree allowed for much more different magical builds possible in that game, because Skyrim really only supports one or two magical builds.

I played this game long before Skyrim, of course.
And all the while I thought. This really isnt bad. but it doesnt hold a candle to what a TES game will let me do

Its sheer unbelievable and for me personally jaw-dropping. I just cannot fathom it.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:48 am

u know something wrong when a non magic TES player notices there arent many spells i never was into magic but always learned a few now seems i know most spells and have no use 4 them

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:28 am

Dragon age had more and better spells

"thumbs up" id kill for these spells in this game

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:18 am

Without illusion in Skyrim Mages are just flame arrow shooting warriors with a essential companion. And illusion is a really sparse tree, so it is sad that it is the only thing that gives mages any scope.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:51 pm

Totally agree. Mages were my favorite characters to make in both Morrowind and Oblivion because spells were so diverse and interesting. In Skyrim however, it becomes dull quickly once you realize that there are actually very little spells in Skyrim.
I just stopped playing my mage yesterday in favor of a new character after I realized I'd been using Summon Flame Atronach and Fireball for the last 12 levels without ever needing or being able to replace them with anything different.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:19 am

I wonder what would have to be sacrificed though to get spells in the game properly again though. I would give a lot for a few choice spells from Oblivion for my cleric like character.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:50 am

Spellmaking's removal signaled the death knell of my interest in this game. People say that unlike Oblivion, you feel like you are gaining in power in Skyrim. Why then, can I one-shot enemies with custom Destruction spells on my level 33 Altmer Mage on 80% difficulty whilst I have to ping and kite enemies with my level 30 Mage in Skyrim?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:54 am

Yup. For all the talk about the exciting new dual hand system, magic was extremely gimped. It's a horrible shame.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:18 am

I need to correct you in one thing: in oblivion you cant make a novice level version of master only spells. If you buy summon dremora but only have a novice level of cojuration then the summon dremora effect wont even show up on the spellmaking altar (but only in oblivion. It did work in morrowind). But yeah, even considering that oblivion still has around 500 more spells than skyrim. I remember using fortify atribute spells in companions to make them more useful and casting damage weapons spells to disarm liches and you cant do that anymore. The alteration and restoration schools suffered the most as most of their effects are only for you despite the fact that it would have been very useful if you could cast them on a friend.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:23 am

The age of limitless TES games is OVER.

Thanks alot for making this game idiot proof....

» Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:13 pm

I need to correct you in one thing: in oblivion you cant make a novice level version of master only spells. If you buy summon dremora but only have a novice level of cojuration then the summon dremora effect wont even show up on the spellmaking altar (but only in oblivion. It did work in morrowind). But yeah, even considering that oblivion still has around 500 more spells than skyrim. I remember using fortify atribute spells in companions to make them more useful and casting damage weapons spells to disarm liches and you cant do that anymore. The alteration and restoration schools suffered the most as most of their effects are only for you despite the fact that it would have been very useful if you could cast them on a friend.

Ah, indeed you are right about higher level summon spells not showing up in the spell making menu in Oblivion when you are lower level. However while I was confirming that I also went ahead and confirmed that with enough skill it's still possible to make a "Novice" level master conjuration spell if you lower the duration of the spell enough so I won't change that part of my list of Oblivion spells that can possibly be made (even if it is highly impractical to make such spells, 1 second Liches FTW for some I guess

)

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:39 am

no more pants of invisibilty? :sadvaultboy:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:27 pm

Hey we got rid of the spreadsheetiness from spellmaking and replaced it with the spreadsheetiness of Alchemy, enchanting, and smithing this time with background animations.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:37 pm

Where is waterwalking?

I have a waterwalking potion

I dont know why it would ever be useful

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:03 am

The age of limitless TES games is OVER.

Thanks alot for making this game idiot proof....

Hmm, actually I'm just waiting for the modding community to get going when the CS comes out. I think a lot of these "problems" will disappear.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:19 am

Spell making made ES magic what it was. I said I wouldn't play mage at all this game till a mod fixed this. I changed my mind and tried it anyways and have about 50-60 hours in now. I can now say with out being ignorant that spell making is a what makes a mage interesting to play. Also disappointed in the loss of boatloads of spell effects...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:23 pm

They removed massive amounts and spell making wow.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:16 pm

The age of limitless TES games is OVER.

Thanks alot for making this game idiot proof....

Blame the people who ran around shouing 'OP'and 'gamebreaking' for that, whatever the hell that means when it comes to fully optional features in a single player game.

Happy now?
TES has lost its magic.
Glad now?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:05 am

Hey we got rid of the spreadsheetiness from spellmaking and replaced it with the spreadsheetiness of Alchemy, enchanting, and smithing this time with background animations.

I think getting rid of the "spreadsheetiness" of spells is okay but I was sorely disappointed to see so many of my core spells gone.

Here are a few spells I always used in Oblivion that I don't have access to in Skyrim on my main character builld.

Shield on target.
Summon Clannfear.
Cure Disease
Restore Fatigue on self (over time spell)
Heal on target (it's actually in but I can't heal my summons with it...)
Summon Skeleton Guardian (better than you'd expect really, can take massive blows with a shield)
Feather on self
Water Walking
Heal Self (a healing over time version)
Fire/Frost/Shock shield
Open
Bound Mace (for those time I somehow lost my mace)

(BTW updated OP again, accidentally wrote down Absorb Magicka, which was not in the game, edited that out and changed the numbers accordingly)

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:42 am

92 spells? Wow. Seriously, screw you Bethesda.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:51 am

The removal of spellmaking has removed the magic from TES.

I have said that before the game was out, and now I have played 150 hours this opinion has not changed.

Its.. plasmids.
Its streamlining, its simplification, call it what you want.
In the end we have gone from a magic system that allowed you to do anything to a totally boxed in one.
And the saddest part is that other games have better magic systems.
It is sheer unbelievable, and 10 years ago would have been laughable, that another gamemaker would have more diverse, interesting and useful magic than TES.

Blast it, why cant I dismiss my familiar when I want to?
Why cant I cast waterbreathing, or anything pre-set as on other on a follower?
Where is waterwalking?
Where is open?

To be honest, I really would be surprised if there wasn't a DLC for Skyrim that includes Spell-making. Bethesda can likely tell a lot of fans want it back, and if they focus on it, I'm sure they could make it amazing. I kept faith about Werewolves being in vanilla, and I was right, so hopefully I'm right about this.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:48 am

Yup. For all the talk about the exciting new dual hand system, magic was extremely gimped. It's a horrible shame.

I'll have to agree with the OP and this comment. I have a little over 90 hours into Skyrim. I'm enjoying the game but the dual hand system seems like hype and hasn't brought anything to the game for me (maybe console peeps gained something from that). I really miss being able to create the crazy amount and various builds of spells from the previous TES games. In previous TES games, a part of being a mage was experimenting with spells, that is now gone.