I just don't get it.

The NV ending was pretty cool, but it was supposed to be: "The Legion's gonna have a full-scale war with the NCR soon".

Are some centurions, veterans and I don't know what supposed to be a full-scale invasion force?


I know it, the world's destroyed and I can't expect city's with millions of people.

BUT ISN'T NEW VEGAS SUPPOSED TO BE UNTOUCHED BY THE BOMBS THANKS TO HOUSE'S ROCKETS?
And a few NCR guys, gamblers and a crazy guy that sells holdout weapons doesn't look like a large untouched city.

Is it to prevent lags? Have they forgotten? Do I whine too much?
New Vegas isn't bad, but I don't get this kinda' things.

It is for gameplay mechanics and lag purposes.

every game has a problem with scaling, because truly massive battles will lag the game to a large extent, and considering the outdated engine New Vegas runs on, I doubt it would be able to handle it.

The fight in F3 was more "epic" but for me it lagged like HELL! So the end fight was more awesome in F:NV IMO

I think that the scale is in proportion to how many people are really left on earth. Keep in mind that anyone alive at this point in history would have had to have ancestors that lived in vaults to survive the war and the radiation, that then went out and found a female to procreate with, that also lived through pregnancy, so on and so fourth... and then these children grew up and survived the various wastelands when their vaults were opened (assuming their vault wasn't part of some ridiculous experiment to kill everyone or mutate them or turn them into plant people, etc). Starting to get to a point where an onslaught of 25 - 40 people (I don't remember how many Legion there were at the battle that I killed or someone killed) would be quite a bit.

Well, I seem to remember that at the time of the NCR-BoS war, the NCR had a population of 700,000. I would assume that Caesar's legion would have a smaller population, due to the fact that they don't seem to have organized centres, so their population density is probably pretty low. The constant massacres don't help either.

Think of it this way - as mentioned above, the NCR's population is on par with a large city of today, the majority of which will be civilians. They are also spread across territory spanning from Vegas to the Baja Peninsula through northern California, having to defend all of it. Just how many troops can they safely free up for the battle, not only at the Dam, but also at all their camps along the Colorado River which may be attacked at the same time? (Following some of the endings, Camp Golf, Forlorn Hope, and others get hit as well).

The Legion, while it sounds like a monstrosity, isn't nearly that huge. It consists of 86 tribes, but how big are those tribes? Take a look at the Great Khans for comparison, they have maybe 50-100 members across the Mojave wasteland. Given some tribes will be larger than others, we can safely guess that means each of those 86 tribes is at least 100 members, putting the total Legion population at around 9000-10,000, not counting slave populations. They are also defending territory spreading through Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, and further eastward.

Not until they change the engine.

I'm pretty sure the Great Khans have been cut down immensely, HandofBane. Besides, I doubt there is much danger for them in the East, considering that the whoel place sounds very quiet.

I agree with you, however. It would be much smaller than the NCR. However, the NCR is a democracy, and is about to experience food shortages, so that'll cut down on their effeciency. However, they don't seem to be nearly as open as the legion, with pretty much only two openings. The North, and the East, where the Legion is. The legion is open on all sides.

Yeah, I thought the lack of people on the Strip was ridiculously sad, there's no way Vegas could thrive on a couple of dozen punters.
My final fight involved killing maybe 12 Legion. I was kitted up with all sorts of guns & ammo, power armour and stimpaks - I could probably have won in T-shirt and shorts.

Epic battle for the future of the Mojave Desert?
My [censored].

Well, New Vegas is largely surviving on NCR money and Mr House's bankroll. I suspect that the NCR showing up in the area is at least part of the reason why House chose that time to revive the Vegas Strip. Most people in the Wasteland are going to be scavengers, farmers and ranchers just barely getting buy and specialists supporting those people, like doctors and traders. Fake player economy aside, the vast majority of people simply aren't going to have thousands of caps and the free time to visit Vegas to play games and give them a lot of money. They'll be spending most of their time barely scraping by and avoiding critters and raiders.

NCR troops on the other hand make a regular pay for which they have to spend very little. Food, shelter and gear is provided by the army. While I imagine that more than a few soldiers are supporting families 'back West', a lot of them are going to be making this money, in a stressful job and occasionally getting time off. The only real place to go spend these caps is in Vegas. Without any kind of air travel, it's not like people are going to be coming from great distances all that often just to visit Vegas. It might be one thing in current times to hop on a jet for a weekend there, but NCR big wigs in California are not going to be walking or riding for a few weeks to visit Vegas and lose a lot of money.. So it's the soldiers that are largely keeping the casinos open.

Everything is scaled down, so I usualy rember to multiply by 5 to 10.
People visibly living in Good Springs? 8 (?). times 5 makes 40. Number of NCR helping you in in nelson? 4 times 10 makes 40 etc...

If you truly would have went up against even a squad of Legion you and your computer would be toast,

I'm happy they didn't actually show the entire [censored] legion.

6000 men are not good for your computer. Maybe in total war, but not in Fallout.

Back in the early days of mankind, we lived tribes that didn't get much bigger than 50 people. It simply became too difficult to survive if the numbers were higher and I have to think that would apply to the current Fallout world. If the Legion had taken over 87 tribes then that would mean they added no more than 5,000 people. Of which I think it is safe to assume not all were taken prisoner or forced to join the army. What kind of numbers they had before moving west is unknown however it does seem clear they really wanted that dam so I would guess they brought the house to take it. After the attack on the dam there numbers would be extremely low since they lost on all fronts in my ending. So much I am not sure they would be able to recover or at least it will take a long while.

Just because Vegas wasn't touched by the bombs doesn't mean the rest of the state wasn't.

And besides, Vegas is really a handful of cowards and weasels who really have no idea how to fight, the rest of the Mojave does, but it's harsher on them with all the mutated wildlife and raiders andy many other dangers. NCR is so small because they were only sent to the Mojave to collect energy from the Hoover Dam, not to fight a war.

Plus, it's a game. Go figure.

Lets not over-think this, guys. Yes, the population density would probably lie around 20% of what it is today, but not to the point represented in the game. We all know it's because of the outdated engine. Im not so sure that even a top-notch game engine (as of 9:05 pm, lol) could do much better.

...and of course remembering the climactic battle in Oblivion:

You and maybe a dozen other dudes up against the immeasurable power of Dagon and his hordes...for the future of all Tamriel...

Epic? :huh:

Let me tell you something. If you listen to the NCR Emergency Radio during the Final battle, you learn that the Legion is attacking Camp Forlorn Hope, McCarran, and Golf so lets pretend there was a large army attacking those places while the Dam was attacked :foodndrink:

Exactly! Such a let down. But in the future, I have a feeling we will be seeing much more than we can imagine right now. I cant wait to get my hands on Elder Scrolls 7 in 2030. Gonna be freaking amazing. Kinect will probably evolve into virtual reality. Oh my gawd nerdgasm.

The whole "Vegas wasn't touched by bombs" isn't all that true. From Mr. House's dialogue, some bombs went through. A total of 77 warheads targeted Las Vegas. 59 Warheads were disabled by Mr. House's satellites using the disarm codes. Another 9 warheads were disabled by laser cannons mounted on the roof of the Lucky 38. That's 77 - 68 = 9 warheads went through. Although none hit the city, many other places were hit which would've leaked radiation all across the Mojave which would've greatly destroyed the human population.

AS everyone has been saying, It's due to Gamebryo shortcomings, and being limited to console specs.

I agree, it was kinda sad for a supposed "Huge Battle"..

Anyone played FFVIII? I remember the battle between Balamb Garden and some other school to be fairly epic because the game designers chose to fill the background with fighting students and it worked given the limitations of that time. Couldn't a game made ten years later do something similar? Background action and appropriate sound effects could really help convince the player that they're participating in something epic. And yeah, Oblivion's last battle was rather lame.

My old laptop (AMD64 3000+ 1GB DDR400 ATI Mobility 9600 64MB) could play Spellforce with about 20 characters fighting on screen before it started to lag - I got it up to 50+ fighters before it turned in to a slideshow. 10 years ago!!!
The rig I built purely to play FO:NV has an i7 920, HD5770, 6GB DDR3 1600 - and I get limited to console graphics and proccessing limitations??!!

Time for a new game engine or GTFO


http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m73/nitrowing1/Clipboard.jpg

My comp lags when I get 25 or so people in a fight. It lags like an old IBM computer when I get people shooting

Why didn't they just build a new damn engine? I mean it would have taken longer for the game to come out but i bet they could have averted lots of problems they are having now, which pushing this game back wouldn't of been a problem i think they are loosing more people from the problems then if they had pushed it back....