Attributes thread without flames hopefully. I don't care much about attributes either, but here is something I think Bethesda missed when they cancled attributes.

Todd said something like "Player adds int in order to get more magicka. Y GAME BEING SO CONFUSING? lets just replace the word int to the word magicka and problem solved "

I do not agree with todd, and i think he missed the fact that attrivutes are not only used for status improvement. They are role playing aspect. When I play a High Elf want to know that my race is smarter than other races. When attributes are on - My high elf IS smarter, and I can go around the world and mock other races based on the fact im smarter than them(because Im an high elf BIATCH). When attributes are off, my high elf is just a more magicka kind of guy. People will miss the point of difference between races - yes, because the difference between the races is not "who is stronger" or "who has more magic power", those are just sub-differences. The main difference is the attributes. Everything lies on that. Orcs need to have low personality in order to act so rude. Bosmers need to have high agility in order to justify their fit with nature, etc.

Ofcurse, what I intend to do is to pretend that high elves are still smarter, orcs are still dumber and ruder, etc. But there will be nothing to back it up. And it can get to the point it will just feel silly pretending its true.

Good luck!

This doesn't make any sense... you couldn't look at the attributes of NPC's in Oblivion. You were just assuming all orcs had a lower INT than you.

Can we just have an offical attributes vs. perks thread? It's getting out of hand..

Still, even If i could not do it well there was a difference and i had a good facts to base it on.
I could most definetly say "orcs are generaly dumber adn ruder than high elfs"

And that, my friend, is racist!

Then what is your Intelligence at in real life? Oh, we don't have stats in real life? Then I don't see the problem. You know your Altmer is smart. You don't need an arbitrary number beside your "Intelligence stat" to tell you that. It didn't change anything about how smart your Altmer was.

You don't need to set the intelligence attribute to 10 to roleplay a dumb orc, do you? It's just a number that only affects magicka...

Real life are not elder scrolls. While in real life benig "smart" is subjective. You can call someone who is good at solving riddles smart. While you can call someone who is good at art smart.

In TES we have attributes. Flat out saying who is smart and who isn't

As it has been stated, attributes are still in the game. They are just hidden. All the races will continue to act the same, just without the needless number crunching. It adds a more realistic feel.

Seriously, why do you need a game mechanic to tell you that you are smarter than someone else? In Oblivion, do you really judge your intellect based on how many points you have in your intelligence? Majority of the people don't, they only put points into intelligence to raise their magicka and not to increase how smart they are.

That's not how it works at all. Those are gameplay mechanics. That's like if person A said to person B "Sorry, I have to go to sleep because I'm due for a level up."

It's not a real thing. People don't discuss their attributes like they're real. Being "smart" is just as subjective in Tamriel as it is on Earth.

So warriors are stupid and mages are smart, since warriors don't put points into intelligence because they don't need magicka?

@OP, why did you feel the need to bring this up again? It's been discussed in over 100 threads ever since attributes were confirmed to be out, can you use the search function next time? There will be 2 sides to this subject and there's bound to be flaming.

Just accept the change or mod it. I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm sick of all this complaining on the same topic..

As for my actual input? I think taking out attributes is the best decision ever made by Bethesda. Ever.

thank you.

And who says just because you're a high elf makes you smarter than my 100 intelligence Orc Mage anyway? :hubbahubba:

This isn't something "people are skipping." It's been discussed from every possible point of view.

But lowering an NPC's intelligence attribute has no effect on how intelligent that NPC really is. Dialogue conveys actual intelligence, not the intelligence attribute. "Intelligence" is the name applied to the attribute, but it should really be called "Magicka."

Never mind - this one's already doomed.

So you like to go around and tell orcs you are smarter than them(purely imagination) because your a high elf? racist much? i hope you don't run around doing this in everyday life... lol

I do not agree.
first of all I do not go to sleep in TES until my character needs to sleep. If my character levels while she does - ok what ever. What im saying is its something ignorable.
2nd - In real life we dont have races who start with a different amount of attributes as a deafult. in tamriel you get the sense altmers CAN talk about their attributes, not directly ofcurse. but they do consider themselves smarter
3rd - When I will increase intelligence after sleeping, I can (as a player) feel like my character has gained the magicka BECAUSE she has learned alot in the passing last few days and the fact she masters her mind more enables her to be more powerful in the art of magic. Making magic exclusive to intelligent chatacters. We lose the realtion between intelligence to magic in skyrim and thats sad, it adds immersion behind those secret beautiful powers.

P.s sorry for the long time it took me to respond. some home issues going on. I will also try to disucss with others who commented, im just alittle tight and busy atm.

Altmer consider themselves smarter because they are the most arrogant thing on Nirn, alongside the Dunmer.

I seriously don't understand what's different without attributes. What you're describing does not rely on attributes AT ALL. We do not lose the relationship between intelligence and magic. Those who are skilled at magic are still going to be intelligent. Just because you don't have an Intelligence stat to indicate how smart they are, doesn't mean they aren't smart or that that isn't relevant. You're relying way too much on arbitrary statistics. We don't have these attributes and stats in real life, so why do we need them in a video game? They were just padding for character creation and didn't mean anything. That aspect of character creation is being implemented better elsewhere, and in a more realistic way.

If I had 100 Intelligence, I could still run into walls and jump off bridges and walk around naked in a cave of Ogres. With 10 Intelligence, I could read a bunch of books and study metaphysics and whatever. It didn't affect ANYTHING except how much magicka I had.

Sharn Gro-Muzgob was smart. For an Orc. Right?!



I'll still never understand this whole "I'm not smart anymore 'cause I can't see the numbers" movement. Just roleplay that your magicka score is your IQ and everyone's happy.

I will say though, that New Vegas handled being "Smart" with INT pretty well. A lot of attribute checks, but also the dialog changes. I found it all kind of interesting.

I'ts my conclusion, primarily from the responses to these threads, that at least as far as some considerable number of players go, Todd's right. Attributes, for them at least, really did only serve as ways to gain magicka, HP, stamina, encumbrance, etc.

That some number of us saw them differently - that we treated the ability to grant characters specific amounts of strength, intelligence, agility, personality and the like as primary aspects of character creation - as ways to define in-game that this character is notably intelligent and that character is notably not, or this character is notably strong and that character is notably weak - and the derived attributes as secondary things - merely as the consequences of the character's strength or clumsiness or intelligence - is just too damned bad.

Like it or not.

I think your some how fixated on D & D stereotypes and making all the wrong connections. I'm not calling you out personally, just stating the obvious. If I want my Bosmer to be a city elf, well...then it's perfectly acceptable to do so. As you can see my point that Attributes actually hinder role play. If I want to go against the norm I should freely be able to do so. In oblivion I had a mage orc who was the smarter than most of his kind and viewed as a bit of a seer amongst his people. Yet every time I pulled up his stats it jarred me out of the rp a little. Eventually it balanced out of course.