Am I the only one annoyed by the smithing tree?
I think it's so unfair if you are a light armour (that's how us English people spell it... The correct way p ) wearer that the smithing tree is so geared around those that wear heavy armour.

Ok, I'll accept that there are more varieties of heavy armour than light, but why do the two best (ebony and daedric - not including dragon as that's either/or) have to both be above the best light (glass).
Ideally I think an extra class should be made in the light armour side, that would sit (stat wise) above ebony but below daedric.
I mean it's not so much the armour that bothers me as it is the weapons. I'm a thief/assassin so I wear light armour - but why does that mean my bow and daggers have to be sub-par to my heavy-armoured-tank counterparts?

Maybe the whole tree could change from an anvil to a hammer (stay with me)...

You start with 'basic' which would give you iron and hide and go straight up the 'handle':
* perk 1 = 'novice' - steel and leather
* perk 2 = 'apprentice' - plate and scale
* perk 3 = 'adept' - orcish and elven (with a split off to upgrade enchanted above here)
* perk 4 = 'expert' - dwarven and glass
* perk 5 = 'master' - ebony and (mythril?)
* perks 6+7 = 'grand-master' + 'dragon' - daedric and dragon (splitting left and right to form the head of the hammer).

A light daedric wouldn't be too un-imaginable either would it? I saw a screenshot of the Skyrim daedric armour and it looks awesome! So jealous in my dragonscale lol.

What do you guys think?

The tree isn't ideal atm - I've lost four or five perks I wanted to put elsewhere to the Heavy Armor side of the tree in order to get Daedric weapons, and I still haven't got access to Dragon armor.

I think they should maybe of put another light armor perk instead of dwarven armor, i've yet to use anything dwarven and normally jump from steel plate to orcish so... but besides that im quite content with it.

I be all up in that tree.

Climbin' both ways.

I'm just confused why Steel Plate armour is on the light armour side.

There should be a light daedric armor.

Daedric armor is made from very heavy material, so I don't think light Daedric Armour is a good idea.

Usually the strongest materials keep the best edge, so glass weapons should have somewhat inferior damage. If you really want the best weapon, then just use alchemy and enchanting to boost your results in smithing. That should put your glass weapons and armour on the same tier of daedric. Glass weapons look cooler than daedric in this game if you ask me.

What annoys me that as a light armour smith, I can't upgrade my ebony and daedric weapons

I also thought I'd be able to go from dragon to daedric and then maybe go for ebony as well, but for some reason the perk tree doesn't go around while it implies that it should

If your issue is weapons just go up the heavy side all the way to dragonscale, then you get the best weapons and the best armor for all classes/skills.

If your issue is just armor then it's a non issue as dragonscale is still achievable from the light track.

Love this idea. But I personally think Armour (as you English people spell it ) as a whole needs an overhaul. Was it really that hard for Bethesda to come up with even amounts of armour (or at least close) for both heavy and light.

However, I would settle for your idea for the perk tree revamp.

Makes me glad I'm on PC so that I can use mods to fix all this (sorry Consolers )

I'm using Legendary Glass Armor that I crafted and I currently have 150 armor rating with no perks in light armor. At level 32 I'm an absolutely beast and only use a bow n' arrow. If I invested in the light armor tree, I'd be a tank. My Legendary Glass Bow does around 100dmg for me currently.

This all seems fine to me. If you want to go the heavy armor route for the extra protection or damage from daedric, go for it. The difference is pretty moot though. It all comes down to what your character would wear!

For my thief, I took the right (heavy) path, use daedric weapons and dragonscale armor. Glass and dragonscale armor are pretty similar in armor rating, and IIRC glass weapons aren't that much worse than daedric? The best sword in the game is chillrend (unique glass sword), which has a higher damage than a daedric sword.

But yeah I agree, glass weapons should have the similar damage as daedric IMO.

Is chillrend that good? It's currently nailed to a board above the door in my Whiterun house haha.
With current perks and enchantmented gear my Legendary (a few tiers of Legendary up thanks to smithing enchantments) glass bow is doing 156 damage with 20 fire damage per hit - and I always go for the x3 sneak shot bonus too. With decent arrows and a good poison I tend to 1 shot almost anything.
My Legendary dragonscale armour, with perks and one enchantment of fortify light armour, gives an AC of 436 (where my identically made and enchanted glass armour gave me 396).
However I still feel if I had access to daedric smithing (armour aside, though apparently daedric armour is better than dragon plate?) that an equally upgraded daedric bow would be even stronger.

Maybe just allow to go over the top of the tree to daedric then?

Also I wish there were a perk for whatever Nightingale armour is, as I'd love to have the decent perk-based reduction in upgrade cost to make it as strong as my dragonscale... That thing looks the nuts even if my own enchantments on my gear are better I'd wear it for the look.

(The more I see the word armour the more it looks wrong, damn Americans dumbing down the English language to look better! Hahaha)

I use Heavy Armour so I can't complain. But I liked dwarven. I jumped from Wolf Armour to Dwarven to Daedric and I was happy

It's perfectly fine as it is. Glass weapons only do around 10% less damage than their daedric counterparts.
Since it's one perk point cheaper to go take the light route to dragon armor, you can simply place that perk somewhere that'll even the difference in damage.

If you're a min/maxer it's a problem. If you're just playing normall, I don't think glass weaponry is that bad at all. Remember that a big chunk of the damage stat of the weapon comes from improving. And that chunk will be just as big on glass weapons as it is on daedric weapons.

Also, the light armour tree of smithing has less perks, so it's only natural that you can't quite get the cream of the crop.

Even with the OPs explanation, I fail to see how the perk tree favors heavy armor.

If anything, it favors light because you can take 1 less perk to get to Dragon.

I think for armor it makes sense, heavy armor should protect better than light, otherwise why lug it around? The light armor route also has some good heavy armors available in case you need to make stuff for a heavy armor specced follower (steel plate and dragon plate). What annoys me is that if you go the light armor route, you're losing access to the best weapons - it should be a choice between damage on one side and protection on the other, not both strengths in one path. It'd be fixed if there were dragon weapons, or if glass weapons were more powerful than daedric.

Daedric heavy > Dragon... there is no reason to go to Dragon with heavy armor other than looks. Daedric weapons are also the best in the game so even if you go light armor you either need to settle for glass or invest in the heavy armor side.

the thing that got me was i leveled the light armor side of the tree grabbed dragon. (at the time i didn't know there weren't any dragon weapons :sadvaultboy: ) when i level i figured i could drop my perk into daedric side with out having to perk the whole heavy armor side. sadly it didn't work despite the fact that it is directly joined to the dragon armor.

The supposed reason for not going 'over the top' of the smithing tree is (and it was intentional, despite looking like it could) all perks must have one connected that has a LOWER skill requirement than itself.

As dragon was to sit at the top, but be available to both sides (as it comes in both heavy and light variety) it has to 'join' in the middle - as dragon is 100 and daedric is 90 you can't go down, only up.

Shame though, I'd be happy to only go down to daedric for the best weapons lol.

I guess it comes down to cosmetics. When I got glass in smithing for my argonian assassin. I was happy with just glass daggers plus the whole glass armor set. Besides, I think it would be overpowered if you can just go up one side to another. It only make sense how light and heavy armor is separated. Daedric uses ebony in the smithing. If, you dont know how to smith ebony and then you wouldnt know how to make daedric armor including weapons.

Ive used a glass dagger/bow on a stealth character along with glass armor. Glass weapons with the glass perk are stronger than daedric weapons without the daedric perk... I got a glass dagger a bit over 100 damage, and daggers arent affected by fortify 1handed, so all other weapons are more than good enough..

Oh hellz no. Dwarven smithing is the EASIEST and cost friendly way to level smithing. Go out and farm Dwemer ruins for metal scraps and such. Smelt those down into dwarven metal ingots, and your smithing will be on rapid leveling.

I will agree the tree need works. And it's not just that Skyrim favors heavy armor on the smithing tree, it favors heavy armor period. Look at light armor, look at it's perks. Look at heavy armor, look at it's perks. Essentially they are the same, except heavy armor is better. You can also make it weigh nothing and not slow you down, multiple ways. So in the long run, light armor will only gimp you and is garbage.