Smithing light armor is pointless? : V - Skyrim

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:07 pm

Let me just start of buy saying that being able to smith dragon armor is the end goal when it comes to smithing.

we also know that daedric weapons are the strongest craftable weapons as well.

Now, my point is, why in the bloody hell cant i go from making dragon armor down to daedric armor when both points connect? im at 100 smith skill yet i have to start off again at the bottom and go through dwarven orc and ebony just to get to daedric, just because i decided to make.

If you dont understand go take a look at the smithing tree in-game, you cant go from dragon down to glass or dragon down to daedric, even though your skill is beyond the requirement and the paths connect.

WTF, this makes one side of the whole smithing tree useless as the further in the game you get the more useless those previous armor and weapons become.. i eman what, do they expect you to stick with glass weapons with dragon armor if you decide to be a light armor smith?

FYI weapons/armor you create and hone yourself are stronger than the ones you find lying around

You realize the difference between glass and daedric greatswords is 3 damage right? Normal swords are only 2 damage difference...

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:41 pm

But perks are at enough of a premium as it is.

If Heavy Armor and Light Armor are skills that functionally do the same thing once you get THOSE perks (because of them suddenly not having weight, etc.) why not just stick to heavy armor?

The Heavy Armor tree is pretty stupid. The same perk is buried under "make your unarmed attacks hit harder while wearing gauntlets" and "take less damage from falling while in heavy armor". The actual worthwhile perks are on the other side, so essentially you need all the heavy armor perks to get the same benefit. It's really stupid.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:23 pm

Think about it like this.

As someone who wants to make light armour / weapons (that is how you spell armour, bethesda :rolleyes: ) you are at a disadvantage to heavy armour makers, because THEY get the option to make daedric weapons, whereas the light armour users only get to go up to glass weapons.

All they need to do is allow the person to go backwards from dragon to daedric, although not further than that.

Bethesda is an American company, and so it should come as no surprise that they use the American variant "armor"

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:47 am

It doesn't make any sense that you should be able to master Daedric armor, when you can't even craft Dwarven.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:18 am

I see what you're saying. the light/heavy sides should not connect and they should be two separate paths. Smithing is not the only tree where you can'y go down a different side after reaching 100. It's a design flaw imo.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:53 am

Not sure why every one is complaining here. There are pros and cons in going each side

Even as a Heavy Armor Character I can go the left side of smithing: Elven Weapons beat both Dwarven and Orchish. Plate Armor is just as good as Orchish armor. Plus it looks a lot better. And it is a whole lot cheaper! And heavy armor is still quite effective at this level. In fact if you are going Sword and Board you can easily max out your armor rating.

For light armor characters going Elven-Advanced-Glass-DragonScale gives top notch AR. And a decent weapon. Glass weapons are the third best. But lets be serious here - Glass weapons still rock. If you REALLY want that extra couple of points of damage then by all means blow 3-4 perks to get Daedric crafting. But I think you are better off putting points into one-hand/two hand perks.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:30 am

Blocking also has this I believe where you can't go full circle but to me it seems fine. You only progress up or sidewards, never backwards. As it goes the light armour side does appear weaker then the heavy armour side of smithing if not the fact that the heavy armour side gets the same final dragon perk which creates dragonscale, the best light armour in the game. But it does mean having to go several levels without seeing any real benefit from the perks you are spending.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:36 am

Both can reach DR cap and the difference between tricked out glass and daedric is rather small so I'd say no it's not pointless. And in the meanwhile I get the advantages of light armor use so not a big deal to me.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:38 am

Since the OP has obviously not seen this yet...

Gear fully Enchanted
4 X Weapon Enchants and 4 X Armor Enchants. (Note I used the +32% self made Enchanting Potion to Power the Enchants... if you don't do this, your results will be 20%ish lower)

Full Daedric Armor: 2175 Armor
Daedric Bow: 562 Damage
Daedric Dagger: 171 Damage - Too bad one handed enchants don't work for daggers... I guess sneak attacking with fully enchanted swords is better.
Daedric Two Handed Sword: 605 Damage
Daedric One Handed Sword: 518 Damage

Glass won't do quite that much, but it will be relatively close. So close that it would feel like you are playing on Novice if you have it set to Master difficulty as far as how fast enemies drop.

Seeing these values Thoros his weapon seems weak: Unenchanted Glass Battleaxe legendary quality with about 100dmg (lvl36 two handed weapon: 98 and all perks I could take (hammer/sword only basic lvls1/3)) and I still find adept too easy so I often switch to expert or even master (until I get one shotted 3 times in a row because of having no uberenchants thus needing longer to keel strong mobs or boss).
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iT5kY.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/N0yVx.jpg[/IMG]

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:29 am

If you want to play efficiently I see no point in upgrading the dragonsmith perk if not for the light dragonscale armor if light armor is the path you've chosen.
The daedric armor has a higher armor rating than the dragonplate armor, and also looks a lot cooler IMO. Yes, daedric weighs significantly more, but once you get the weightless heavy armor perk, that won't really matter.

I perked out the whole smithing tree though, I kinda regret that. :tongue:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:26 pm

omfg i am not debating about being a heavy armor class or a light armor class, im specially talking about what a [censored] waste of perks it is to go on the light armor side of smithing vs the heavy side, THE END RESULTS STILL ALLOW YOU TO CREATE LIGHT OR HEAVY DRAGON ARMOR so y the [censored] would i spend points for the lgith armor side even if im a light armor guy when taking the right side will still give me the SAME results WITH daedric weapons WITH a few extra saved perks to spend elsewear

i dont give 2 [censored] about the differences between light armor classes vs heavy when the smithing tree is obviously biased.

I like the light armor my self, I like the look of glass/dragonscale, and I like the perks that come with useing it. I think there's some magic forge inger the college in winterhold that lets you make deadric stuff any way, though I havnt tried it and dont know if it takes any skills to use or not.You should look into that if you want deadric so badly.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:05 am

Light armor 50% stamina regen FTW!

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:03 am

Wow.... this is the first im hearing of this...I'm a light armor/stealth character and was totally gonna go round the tree to dadric just to smith the weapons..... thats bs... i'm kind heart broke right now. I want the daggers n bow.... pretty stupid..... what kinda heavy armor wearer uses a daqgger anyway?

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:27 am

The only real kink i see in the armor tree is that you have to work through the light armors in order to create plate armor which is heavy.To me thats odd.

Besides that it doesn't bother me that you can't work your way around the tree.Next time i'll just skip doing that side and concentrate on heavy if playing a crafting character.

You can't have everything.Well you can but it just means investing in perks you really don't want to get the ones you do.I actually like the way they set that up like with the heavy armor perks talked about that you need to get the weightless perk.Both seem of questionable or very limited use at best but there is a payoff at the end of it.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:06 pm

The only real kink i see in the armor tree is that you have to work through the light armors in order to create plate armor which is heavy.To me thats odd.

Besides that it doesn't bother me that you can't work your way around the tree.Next time i'll just skip doing that side and concentrate on heavy if playing a crafting character.

You can't have everything.Well you can but it just means investing in perks you really don't want to get the ones you do.I actually like the way they set that up like with the heavy armor perks talked about that you need to get the weightless perk.Both seem of questionable or very limited use at best but there is a payoff at the end of it.

I thought that...then I made a heavy armor PC and got the Steed Stone. It's a bigger deal for Heavy Armor use but it does make a difference. For me it comes down to weapon choice. If I go Sword and Board I use light armor. If I go two hander or battlemage I go heavy armor. If I do something crazy and deign to go dual wield I go heavy armor.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:22 pm

Heavy armor users can also very easily just use the Steed blessing for the majority of the game. Reduces armor weight to zero, and gives you an extra 100lbs encumbrance to play with. That really negates a lot of the negatives of waiting until you get to 70 skill in heavy armor. Sure, your skills may not rise as quickly... but it's not exactly a race for the finish in this game anyhow.

Light armor users do get screwed, but I spent my points in the heavy armor tree until I got to dragon, and had daedric weapons. It's silly that we have to do it that way.

Dragon armor should be at 90 skill, with daedric at 100.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:19 am

Heavy armor users can also very easily just use the Steed blessing for the majority of the game. Reduces armor weight to zero, and gives you an extra 100lbs encumbrance to play with. That really negates a lot of the negatives of waiting until you get to 70 skill in heavy armor. Sure, your skills may not rise as quickly... but it's not exactly a race for the finish in this game anyhow.

Light armor users do get screwed, but I spent my points in the heavy armor tree until I got to dragon, and had daedric weapons. It's silly that we have to do it that way.

Dragon armor should be at 90 skill, with daedric at 100.

Thankfully some weapon comparisons have shown that the difference between tricked out glass and tricked out daedric weapons isn't terribly much. And I agree about Dragon and Daedric perk set up. I think they made Dragon the top tier for little more reason than, "It's a game with dragons!"

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:56 pm

Some people complain over everything!

SHEESH!

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:30 am

Going up the light side is a complete waste of perks if you go for 100 smithing, and it'd still be a waste of a perk if you could go around to grab daedric. Going light will give you better light armors early on, for a significant disadvantage once you're at the point when you can craft dragon scale and daedric or ebony both of which are superior to glass.

Not at all. If you have 100 smithing you can reach the cap wearing light armours. If you were not going for smithing i would get your point. Only advantage of wearing heavy armour is suffering less stagger. On the other hand you move faster(heavy ar got perk that negates this) and get more stamina regen in lights..
I personally enjoy light armours more hence they look better and got more options like Thieves/Nightingale/Assassin's etc. But nothing beats the sixiness of my breton mage in her forsworn set.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:26 pm

I honestly don't see the problem here, if you want to use a heavy weapon you have to work your way up the heavy side the the tree. It is a pretty logical system. Yes Daedric should be worse then dragonbone the way they have the perks laid out, but that doesn't change the logic of the system as a whole.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:48 am

You can go the heavy armor side up to dragon and make the best light armor and weapons if you want.

I'm getting smithing to 100 and putting 2 points to craft Elven. . With a few alchemy potions and some smithing gear and 3 perks in Light Armor you can hit the armor cap with legendary Elven armor.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:48 am

Heavy armor users can also very easily just use the Steed blessing for the majority of the game.

Of course, at least the first game, that depends on finding the Steed stone. Depends on which directions you end up exploring and questing. I don't think I found Steed until the high 30's/low 40's. :tongue:

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:15 am

If the perk star sign thingy was V shaped (or had branches like a lot of the other perks) instead of being a circle, maybe you would understand why you cant go full circle.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:49 am

I've been playing into the mid 40s in mostly cloth gear. Quit whining so much OP. You sound like the people who are deadset on min-maxing EVERY game that comes out.

» Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:17 pm

You can't go down from dragon to daedric because you don't have the heavy required perks. I would assume that the skills in light don't translate to heavy. Glass doesn't work the same as ebony, you have to handle them differently for it to be useful and not shatter the first time you are hit.

Didn't read the whole thread, but is it that big of a deal? You already are at 100 smithing so you just need a few perk points to select each heavy armor. Not like you have to grind it out. You already meet the requirements (except I would assume the previous perk, like steel to get to dwarven).