I'm on my third playthrough, and I thought I'd do something different and put all my skill points as I got them into Sneak. While Sneak doesn't help you shoot things, a Sneak automatic critical does mean x4 damage (typically), and the early enemies have low health. Plus, anything I couldn't fight with my poor weapons skills, I could sneak by, right?

Wrong. Oh, stealth definitely has its uses in this game, particularly if you're distant from your target, or have a Stealth Boy. But while it appears that the early enemies are scaled to match what you'd expect a low level character will have in the way of health, weapons, armor, and weapons skills, they are just as perceptive as the stuff you face in your late 20's. Primm is where you must face your first serious combats, and the escaped convicts were detecting my supposed "stealth" specialist halfway across the Bison Steve. I'd be edging down the back corridor opened by the maintenance key, and I'd get "caution" because some guy in the dining room (not the kitchen) could tell I was there. In fact, I couldn't really tell any difference in my "specialist" sneaker versus my much more combat-focused earlier run.

I was playing Very Hard + hardcoe, and later on I tried sneaking by some Vipers in metal armor I couldn't handle yet, and despite being very distant from just about everything, I had my choices between alerting the Vipers or the small radscorpions in the desert. Some sneak I was.

The upshot is I feel that there's no point in dumping points into Sneak until you're prepared to take it all the way to 100, and probably until level 12 when you can get Silent Running, which negates the sound issues from stealth entirely (not just the sound of running). The mid-levels of Sneak just don't help meaningfully. Working backward, assuming you're going to get 16 points from books and want to push for 100 Sneak + Silent Running at the first opportunity, there's little point in putting points into Sneak before about level 8 at the earliest. The only exception I can think of is getting it up to 50 so you can sneak a decent handgun into the casinos.

Were you running while sneaking?

With this engine, I never found Sneak useful, not even in Oblivion, with maxed Chameleon

I can sneak around damn near everything with sneak 60, I assassinate so many fiends its not even funny.

I never have had that problem at Primm. On more stealthy characters I've managed to creep my way through Bison Steve and eliminate each person one by one (at a low level I struggled with the gang leader and his incinerator)

However, radscorpions are always super-perceptive: they have always been able to spot you a mile off.

No. I understand the sneak mechanics fairly well.

That's strange. I find sneak to get more useful with each point you put into it. I disagree that it needs to be at 100 to be useful.

At what difficulty were you sneaking about the Bison Steve? The Vault doesn't mention difficulty level as a factor in sneaking, but at the very least it does affect how easy it is to one-shot someone with a sneak attack critical to the head. I was using a silenced Varmit Rifle (in nearly perfect repair), and it was very hit-or-miss. Sometimes I'd get a kill, sometimes I'd take off only a fraction of their health. I'm guessing I was getting some torso hits since I couldn't find a scope for sale before hitting Primm.

On a related note, the Silenced .22 seems completely useless. My theory is that its strength is the rapid fire rate and good sized clip, so if you're close enough to use VATS instead of manual aiming, you could unload a bunch of shots into the target's head if you could get close undetected. It appears that you don't alert the target if you're firing in VATS until VATS ends. The problem is that you can't get close, and by the time you can, you've probably get a silencer for the 10mm pistol.

I'd like to reiterate that stealth is pretty nice once you've got high skill and Silent Running. I killed everyone in Vault 3 in my second playthrough with a silenced 10mm, and only got caught once - I managed to not kill one target in my initial attack.

Always find the sneak style of play to be epic win once it hits 50+. Keep in mind lighting and movement plays a big part in sneaking. Stick to shadows and don't move when a enemy has line-of-sight on your character.

The clothes you wear can help or hinder sneaking. Metal Armor is in the Hinder Sneaking catagory. Wear other clothing.




Until you get Silent Running, if you are set to always run or running while sneaking, you will be detected quite easilly.

Once my sneak is up to 50 or so, like most skills, it becomes quite useful. However, understand that some enemies have a high perception and will more easilly detect you. Not sure what the guys in Bison Steve are at, but I find it almost impossible to sneak up on them to attack but other enemies are not as perceptive. I have never tried this one with my Sneak above 40 as I usually get to Primm early on. If you are following the game progression, it is doubtul that most will get their Sneak up high enough to do a Sneak attack on these paricular guys.

I disagree w/the OP....I find 40-50 sneak to be a lot more useful than, say, 13 sneak. I've been able to sneak between two groups of enemies in the same spots a lot more effectively with it being higher (even while sneak-running) which is why I always tag Sneak. It doesn't enable me to run up behind someone in broad daylight without them seeing me but I can creep closer to get that first shot in, which can be helpful if you're not using a scope. And if you're trying to sneak across flat terrain, especially in daylight, well, it's not that hard to spot you from a distance. Makes sense to me that enemies could see you in the distance.

I do think, however, that if you're not planning on using sneak over-much or putting it to 100, there's no reason to put it higher than 50ish. For super-covert situations I just use stealthboys and it's rare that I personally use even those.

You misread this. I was wearing leather, the Viper had metal armor. That's why I couldn't handle her.

OP: not, it is not. 50+Silence Running is enough most of the time. You only need 100 if you are obsess with exploding pants.

EDIT:You can't handle a Viper in metal armour?

I basically can stand in from of fiends in daylight without being seen and my sneak is 90. In front doesn't mean a meter away, but rather 6 meters. I can easily pickpocket fiends and then giv em a good hard punch with my love, or is it hate? :hubbahubba:

Leather should be OK, but try regular clothing too.

haha nice!

Odd. I generally get my Sneak up to 65 or so. It serves me *quite* well throughout the game.

Not at level 4 (maybe 5, I forget) with 12 skill in Guns and nothing heavier than a 9mm pistol / Varmit Rifle. I was blasting away at her at point blank range and taking little dings off her health because her DT was absorbing most of the damage. In retrospect, I uh forgot that I was also carrying the Incinerator from the Primm with about 30 units of flamer ammo. That probably would have handled her, actually.

Low sneak I have on average at max range a chance to kill one foe, then suffer a longish cool down period even when still and in cover.
50+ at long range a much shorter period.
75+ like a shadow I am.

Low sneak at middle range, generally one shot then hostiles heading to me..
If not at least no chance of ever having the hidden status reset untill much later and when moved out of range.
50+ sneak medium range as low sneak max range, need cover and time.
75+ as 50+ at long range.

Low sneak at short range, no chance even in an unlit room, at the center of a dark cave, in the middle of the night on a planet with no sun.
50+ skill slow movements, stopping all the time, keeping cover and wishing for a potion of invisibility stealthboy.
75+ good chance of avoiding detection for a small blitz attack, caution only for most foes after.
In the dark bowls of Hecate of an indoor area even a deathclaw pack will have trouble..

Love to say it, but most times if it aint workin' right, you're holding it upside down.

Not sure how your sneaking OP but even at a low level ~40, sneaking around the Bison Steve, just crouching and not moving whilst sitting in the dark spots made my character invisible to a powder ganger only a few metres in front of me.

I found my sneak play through to be the most enjoyable, especially when trying to get as close as possible.

Check your pip boy light is off, sit in shadows and wear light armour. Travel at night or carry a scope during day travel.

If u get a caution, back up and find a hiding spot as they'll come to your position.

At 75 sneak while crouching, w/ silent running, light armor, and pipboy light off I've had targets walk right in front of me and not see me. That being said, you're more likely to be spotted when you move even w/ silent running than staying in one place regardless of your sneak skill.

I suspect sneak factors are the same for FNV as they were for FO3:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Sneak#Factors_in_successful_sneaking