I have never thought the racials were that important and you should play what you want. Except in PvP, it seems like sneak will play a large role. I spent alot of hours in Cyrodiil the last 2 betas and seemed to be stealthed quite a lot. Do you think the sneak bonus of Bosmer and Khajiit will be a large advantage or is the % not enough to worry about. Also is there a way to make up this difference with another character ie: enchanting, provisioning, alchemy etc. I know there is the medium armor passive, but I assume that will stack with the racial ones.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Also I am not looking for a debate on carnage.

If combined with the medium armor passives, then it adds up.

On its own, its not such a big deal , at least I don't think it would be.

If you gain as much stealth as possible in the game, then Im guessing you can pretty much sneak past anything. But that will do only so much for you....to win you do have to attack at some stage, and once you do, the stealth means 1 big hit & thats it.

I saw an annoying way to take use of the stealth in PVP. Was having a huge mayhem in one outpost and ppl had to ride back from the closest respawn point. The enemy team had a stealth gank squad picking out ppl like flies lol at that moment, even if telling everyone to move together and take care of each other, after 4th time to try and run back another route I got really fed up Even if at the moment it felt like a dike move from the enemies I guess it's one way to utilize stealth I just hope it will be kept balanced somehow.

This works well against an zerg, don't work as well against an orgainized enemy as you will tell the location to the rest of the quild at death so they had to keep moving.

Solution is to wait a minute before runing back so you can team up.

if you morph magelight you and close allies will sustain 50% less sneak attack damage, problem solved ^^

and if you do happen to be killed by a stealth ganker, dont let it get to you, it doesnt take a lot of skill to kill someone with the element of surprise on your side bro

Counteract it with mage light.

Completely legitimate use of stealth. Don't ride the obvious routes. Invest in Tents. Hunt the squad down.

I found stealth to be basically useless against the NPCs in Cyrodiil even with the medium armor bonuses. I am argonian so maybe the racials help?

It seemed to me that there was no difference in being stealthed or just walking up to them as far as when they spotted you and started attacking.

Sure the Khajiit racials are good for sneaky pvp action, but ultimately, it doesn't make much difference.

1v1 or 4v4, when you get that sneak attack on the enemy they are most likely going to lose.

I played my nord bowmaster quite a lot in the betas and not once was I able to fail to kill the enemy while doing a sneak shot.

The big issue with the stealth in PvP is the fact that it's literally a free skill. No SP investment, no Skill slot investment, and pathetically low passive stamina cost. and THE ONLY counter is magelight, which takes away one slot, has a passive significant costs (because it's % based upkeep) and you need to also invest 2 skill points in it... I could live with that, if stealth also required spending skill points and consuming a skill slot. otherwise this needs a rework for the PvP environment.

Everyone can use stealth, including you. It's fine the way it is. Also, mage light only works from so far. Most of the time people that use stealth usually attack from a distance with a bow so mage light isn't going to help you in that case.

Is magelight even seen by attacking players? Sort of like traps that hunters put down in pvp from WoW.

Yes it's seen, even when you're sneaking enemies can see a big glowing orb flying around.

Stealth is powerful, but situational. Good groups will counter with Mage Light and/or AoEs.

It also doesn't work very well in attacking keeps, only defending. When you're attacking you will be detected VERY easily by NPCs even if you stack all the bonuses.

No what I mean the sneaker can see it around a enemy player, not themselves using it.

Yes. Other players can see your Mage Light.

And Mage Light does not turn invisible if you stealth yourself.

Everybody can see it.

Stealthed enemies are a hazard. Learn to deal with it instead of crying 'nerf'. I'm not too keen on dragon knights being able to pull me from battlements. I could come on here and demand the skill is nerfed - or I could stand further back, go into stealth, stop presenting a static target etc.

Similarly if I don't want to be stealthed I'll try and anticipate where they might be, form a gank squad and walk in the open to lure them out etc. It's gameplay and fun gameplay at that.

yes, so in other words it's mandatory when you travel around to use sneak instead of running/horseriding... better to arrive slightly later than not arrive at all.

I mean, the way it is, anyone who does not utilize the free sneak that has a very unreliable counter, is not playing smart enough. Either enhance a regular detection range of players vs other players to 10-15m and buff up mage light even further in terms of detection, or move sneak to skillable active abilities.

Other way of dealing with that is, that you cannot stealth vs players for 1min when you were spotted by opposing team player.

you don't get it... DKs skill has costs in terms of points and slot not to mention high resource costs. it is like arguing that NB has invis on demand...

I get it fine and just don't care.People just need to learn to handle problems instead of crying foul. It's an opportunity not a problem.

Dk wearing medium armor can stealth as good as any nightblade, and dont try to make the DK seem inferior to the nightblade in terms of class skills because DKs have an extremely versatile amount of skills at their disposal ranging from offensive and defensive buffs to strong single target dps, OP self heals, and aoe CC + damage over time ....nightblades have one strength and one strength only and that is Single target dps and 1 or 2 stealth passives, if you nerf the entire stealth mechanic then nightblades will svck even more

besides a morphed magelight decreases stealth damage taken

I think you guys are getting alittle off topic. I just want to know do you think the racial bonuses to sneak will be much benefit in Cyrodiil. I like the sneak system just like it is. I am calling for no nerfs to anything.

I dont really understand why all classes get this ability honestly. The nightblade should be able to detect anyone, anywhere, anytime if they are simply crouching and not a nightblade. Nightblade vs Nightblade should require actually actively looking for them though.

Where did you read that I am arguing about DK being inferior to NB?

I was just pointing out that comparing, what you exactly proven, that stealth is free and available to everyone, to the only quasi counter, which is magelight, is simply not fair. Magelight takes a skill slot, has cost in terms of resource and static % sustain on magicka + requires putting skill points into it.

If stealth was also an active skill, that you need to place on the bar, like for example NB's invis, then I would be fine with this being the only real solution to the stealth in the game. As it is, it's not a 'fair' playground, as right now the only viable tactis is basically travel in very large groups with some guy wasting a slot on magelight, or traveling yourself using stealth when in a small group or alone, OR sending 1-2 players as a bait and have pack of stealthed guys being next to them...

Anything else is not smart.

I'd change a passive detection range to 10-15m so you still can attack from regular maxed range of bows, staffs and most of ranged skills (ca 20m) and perform scouting missions, while Magelight buffs that radius for another 15meters and detects invisibility within 10m radius. Add also a rule that if you break stealth on PvP by dealing damage, you cannot re-stealth for 1min versus other players.

Problem solved, stealth is balanced, and magelight is actually a good skill investment.

PS. Just on the note, I've also abused this ability myself during the beta destroying tents and siege equipments of other alliances while being DK in HA, but I know that it was an abuse and I can call it.