Hey all - I am re-opening my other http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?/topic/1304075-sneak-help-enemy-detection-scales-too-high to have it more appropriately named, as some testing shed better light on what the actual problem may be.

TL;DR: Enchanted gear that improves the %success of your sneak actually decreases your chance to sneak.

I don't know if there is other math involved, for example, does this affect characters with very low level sneak skill (and no perks?) All I know that's true is with my character-level 49, fully sneak perked / skill-capped thief, this absolutely holds true. It is also possible that this is always true, but only so noticeable at higher levels as in my case. Here's a recap of the testing I did for the previous thread.



I should note, I have not installed patched 1.2, in fear of the issues I've read it can cause. : ) Other than this possibility of course. If anyone has 1.2 and is willing to test this out, it would be cool to have that here.

Strong possibility: %increase actually is a straight value increase (effectively increasing your sneak as if you had X more skill points), or calculates as a value increase. Skill probably still effectively caps at 255, and may bug out or "roll over" at values higher than this.

Edit: Testing - Try equipping less +% sneak, something like 20%, and see if it causes the same problem.

I can give it a shot, but the lowest I can go on this character is 40% per item.

Although, I was under the impression that +% sneak directly adjusts your "roll" to be detected, much like the # skill-level you are in Sneak does. This is in combination with other factors such as: line of sight, light shining on you, noise, weight of armor, etc. I don't think it is adjusting a hidden raw skill level, as they don't seem to be shy about it with other skills such as Heavy & Light Armor; it just adjusts the actual skill level displayed in your menu and highlights in green.

So is your sneak value as displayed 160, or 260? Edit: Since you said you have +40% items, I believe that should be 4 of them which would put you at 260... if so just try taking one off so your value is less than 255.

There might be some random chance involved. Did you test it several times to be sure?

+% Sneak Enchant does not adjust the skill level itself, but rather your chance to sneak (if that makes sense.) http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c383/ardikus/sneak.jpg So basically, no matter what I equip or unequip, my skill level says 100, and it always will. This is dealing with hidden math, unfortunately.



Yes I did! I am very thorough. : )

If you enchant items with less than Grand soul gems you can get lower percentages.

Research invalidated.

Friggin... duh. Thank you. :sadvaultboy:

Post invalidated. :flamethrower:

I have been able to do some seriously ridiculous sneak moves with my full stealth char (who doesn't wear armor, but instead uses all sneak %+ gear possible, such as a ring and the DB hood). My observation of it is entirely different than the OPs.

Apologies, I misunderstood your previous post, the wording was a bit vague and gave me the impression that your sneak skill WAS being adjusted on the skills screen.

Anyway, visible or raw&hidden, my bet is that you're "rolling over" an important number by causing it to exceed its' highest expected value. I would strongly suspect that you can take off half your sneak bonus gear and find yourself staying hidden just fine.

That is unwarranted. You saw what he said. He doesn't even have the patch that most of us do. He's playing on an older, less updated version of Skyrim. That does indeed discredit his research unless you yourself aren't using the patch.

what makes it invalidated? the fact he doesnt want to play the most recent patch that breaks the game? i know a lot of people playing skyrim that doesnt update to 1.2 because of how bad it messes up the game. only an idiot would play skyrim with 1.2

Oh nice, that's awesome - What patch are you updated to?

Probably the one you were to scared to update to, a.k.a. 1.2.

The latest one, at all times. So 1.2. On the PS3 it does, for a stange reason, show up as 2.01.. but it's 1.2

anyway OP, aside from the arrogant flamers i appreciate your research. there a lot of us out there that refuse to update to 1.2 because of the mass amounts of fail it holds.

practically my whole family and friends 12+ people that play skyrim have reverted back to 1.1 because the update is just too awful to play.

As with a more helpful poster just added, yes it may have been fixed in 1.2. Unlike you, however, I don't like guessing and sticking my nose in places for the sake of feeling special. I specifically called out that I was not playing 1.2 for this exact possibility, you unhelpful troll. Good day.

This is excellent news, thanks for the update.

Patch 1.2 only blows on the PC version. If you're playing on a console it's ignorant not to update.

I might want to add, daylight makes every enemy see you miles away, no matter what you do. (besides invisibility)

This hasn't been my experience at my higher levels. Right now if I sneak completely naked, I can walk around undetected, in line of sight, during the day, away from any shadows. This is fully sneak-perked at skill 100.

The coolest part about all this is, I now know something important: I don't need to enchant +sneak to be able to sneak at the level I desire. :hubbahubba: So many other enchanting possibilities are now open, even during 1.2+ hopefully.

To add, I've tested the same save file, removing 1 additional piece of +40% sneak gear and here's what I found.

• -1 Piece: Was not immediately detected, but slowly detected while not moving
  
• -2 pieces of gear, not immediately detected, but as soon as I moved, the detection began heavily
  
• -3 pieces of gear, not immediately detected, was able to move freely far away, but within, I'd say 20 yards, I was detected (actually rather normal for conditions.)
  
• -4 (all of my) sneak gear, I am completely undetected, can sneak up physically touching my enemy before being detected AKA unbeatable sneak

The whole point of this for me was, my inclination that the more sneak gear I created, the harder it was to actually sneak! So my suspicions are completely true (though I am not 1.2 updated just yet, I will be despite PC warnings soon.)

I had a similar issue with pickpocketing when I first started playing the game. I'd equip a ring with pickpocketing enchants and my success percentage would go down. I tested it again today, on xbox, and it no longer does it. Since, at the time, I could actually see the percentage values for success, I knew there was something wrong but it no longer does that.