Seriously, everyone keeps saying that Skyrim is totally geared towards thieves and cut throats, well..you're right.

I think the one thing that failed in designing this version, is a well placed arrow from out of the darkness should be no different than a fireball or lightning bolt from the dark. They really should count the same in terms of surprise attack, though the base damage for magic is much more powerful overall. Although the archer does not have spells that drain 25 points a sec, so it is somewhat equal playing field, but I can see the argument.

You're full of it. It is not overpowered. Half the time you are discovered before you can sneak up on an enemy. If all your gear was enchanted towards stealth, then maybe.

Half the time? Really? I can be nearly standing on top of them, and they don't notice me. No enchantments here. 5/5 sneak, +15x backstab, + 3x bow dmg. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

I'd love to hear from people that actually play the game, and know of what they speak. Thanks

Sound.

You still make sound even when you have 100 sneak.

Muffle your movement, and you can sneak up on sabrecats from the front in broad daylight wielding a glowing dagger, jump on their back and backstab them undetected while sitting on their back -- at about 60 sneak.

Slight exaggeration there...

But add a bow, and you can sneak-kill anything in the wilds, and in caves people can walk OVER you without seeing you.

It's an idea with precedent. Touch and ranged touch spells in D&D could sneak attack in 3.5e. I'm thinking about applying it to Skyrim if I'm still playing when the CK comes out.

That's not mentioning the silence perk that allows you to run up behind a character and backstab them. From my exquisite elven daggers at lvl 25 (18 dmg), that equals 270 base dmg on backstab.

quiet svcks that magic doesn't get sneakbonus.... i mean.. they put a mage in the dark brotherhood base, so they got the idea, but somehow did nothing to make it viable...

At low sneak levels maybe. You can hit 80+ before level 20 and virtually be invisible in a darkened area even when enemies are looking right at you point blank.

That depends if you have the muffle effect on your boots. If you have muffle then you won't be discovered unless the enemy sees you. Usually I don't waste the time sneaking up behind somebody in a dungeon unless they are sleeping or using a work station, otherwise I'm shooting them with a Bow.

Word!

Sneak seems to barely work in the beginning and then becomes almost too good at higher levels. The vanilla game had sneak raise FAR too easily. With a mod that cuts skill progression in half... its much more enjoyable.

Exactly. They won't see you in a darkened area...who would have thought. Sneak is great for dungeons, everybody knows this.

Have fun with saber cats/snow bears/cave bears when you dont get the drop on them in broad daylight. They 2 (3 if you are lucky) shot you on master difficulty just about.

I'm discovering that now at simply lvl 25. I wish there was something available for xbox that could do this. But I'm avoiding grinding anything to make sure that the lvl-up process is not forced.

ya

Sneak attack arrows do several times over more damage than fireball or lbolt, or the expert spells, and you never get attacked.

Sneak is rather bipolar- either everything spots you or nothing spots you, there doesn't seem to be any middle ground. As one who has a high (L67+) Sneak-Archer I've experienced both extremes; at low levels you do a lot of hit-and-run, but at high skill and lots of perks you can practically dance on someone's head and they still won't see you. Those preferring dual daggers have it even worse early on, as they have to close to point-blank to use them and the odds of being seen in that situation with low skill and few perks approach 100%.

I deliberately avoided adding Illusion to the mix, as I could see from a cursory examination thereof that it would just be cruel to do so. I also don't use the 'throw voice' shout, although that's more a case of it having a significantly shorter range than my bow does; I would imagine that a 'daggers only' character would get a lot more mileage out of it, given the need to get close to do the stab.

It is obscenely overpowered indeed, and to anyone that has an archer, it's foolish to not also be a sneaker, even if you don't get the perks. You should have to put points into sneak to even get the 2x damage.

I think a lot of you don't understand the fact that once you have been discovered, wether it be because you've killed something or because of whatever reason your open to possible brutal attacks.

Now I'm a stealth archer, and well I tend to fear a room full of enemy's. Because I may be able to kill a few with 1 arrow... Its when the others go "there he is!" and waylay on me.

So understand sneak is not only an offensive gain, but a defensive measure. If I get hit I'm a goner! Thus the reason I keep a companion with me... When fights get a little out of hand.

They WERE legal? I thought it didn't apply in 3.5, though I haven't played it since Pathfinder came out. Though, if you have to cross-class to do it anyway I don't see any harm in adding some sneak d6's to the d6's of your fireball you are losing out on because of your Rogue/Assassin/Ninja/etc. levels.

Yes, but if you talk to the Dark Brotherhood's mage, he'll tell you flat out (in one of his "advice on my current contract" lines) that he's not a sneaky type. He prefers to walk up to his target, introduce himself, melt their face, and run like hell before he gets caught. Maybe this is because he knows he doesn't get bonus damage for sneak attacks.

It's interesting. I did my first character as a Two-handed Nord barbarian, using bows only occasionally, didn't see much point in sneak because I always getting caught.

Current character is a Wood Elf sneak-warrior/archer/ranger, and I am one- and two-shotting foes that I get the drop on, even at level 4. The perks and playstyle seem to make a lot of difference. I can easily see how sneak and archery will get insanely good at higher levels. I would also support some kind of sneak buff for spells, as they are gimped in comparison. Instead of bringing down the opponent to half or less health with first sneak spell, you end up just pi**ing them off, and then backpedal real fast trying not to lose mana before they mow you down.

Sneaking is really powerful if you have all the perks and wear muffled boots/light armor.
Then again, perks in sneak can't be spend somewhere else.

If you take smithing and enchantment to the extreme, you can make some seriously epic gear when you're only level 25, but you won't be able to do much else.

I think you can say that every skill is "overpowered" in a way, but if you play on the highest difficulty it's just a matter of making the right choices in order to be able to hold your ground.

I think it's a necessity that both go hand in hand. Although I did the same thing with an archer/mage, which worked fine, but i wasn't a sneak oriented character.

Absolutely agree. A room full of Falmers, I'm totally dead, or if I do win out, my follower is dead. Last night I attempted Liars Cavern (or whatever) over a dozen times. I died miserably every time except once; and Lydia was lying in the bulk of bodies. I had to peal them off her, just to find the body. So sad; I reloaded the save and have left that place for later.

Yea, for a "true" sneak your stealth skill is your defensive skill.

So for a warrior, they go into battle smashing people and people smashing them back. Thus they can level up there armor and possibly block.

Any character build that gets into regular combat will have a good defense... And I mean good as in the ability to withstand a couple of hits without worry. But a character built that does NOT see normal combat IE: stealth kills with a bow or daggers, or whatever weapon you choose, will not have a good defense, BUT there stealth will be higher. Thus allowing them to still have some type of protection.

All of the three basic playstyles are "overpowered" when taken to their extreme, but for a thief type it's much easier to get there. While warriors need their weapon, armour and blocking plus smithing, and mages need at least 2 schools plus enchanting, thief types only need focus on 2 skills (stealth and one-handed or archery), as, in my experience as a stabby assassin, they can easily kill with unupgraded found gear. Only other things they need are muffled boots and, at higher levels, shrouded handwear.

Sure, they can easily get killed in a straight fight, but at least with full stealth perks escape is easy