Phitt I think there may be one remaining bug, I installed the new version on the family machine last night and today my eldest's character (which hasn't developed a good sneak level yet) has found an oddity.

NPC's sleeping at 90 degrees to the bed. For example if the bed is head to toe north/south, NPC is sleeping east/west.

I cannot replicate this in my game, but considered if I am high enough (at level 64 sneak right now) not to be detected in their sleep I would have no effect. Whereas a lower sneak level character may have an effect on sleeping NPCs' making them rotate in their sleep?

Are you sure this is not an old version you installed? This bug happened before I put in a check (in v1.2) as I found out while sneaking in Cropsford Camp (with a 77 sneak character). But I tested with v1.2 and NPCs didn't do this anymore (since I put in a check for IsSleeping to make sure that sleeping NPCs aren't affected by the look around if suspicious thing). I'll test with the current version, but I wouldn't know why it should happen.

Yep v_1_3

Grabbed it soon after release copied to memory stick transferred to desktop after trying it out on the laptop and installed. I have not previously installed it on the desktop.

The NPCs' seen so far affected are DB members in the Cheydiinhall sanctuary. Vicenti on his slab, Ocheeva in her room bed, and the Orc (forget his name) in the common sleeping room.

How large is the fiesize of the esp you use on your family desktop? It should be 10.9 kb, anything less would be a previous version.

Wait, no, sorry I checked the archive size, the esp on the desktop is 10.9 kb. So correct version installed.

I cant replicate it either on the laptop, but there is no difference in load order or installed mods, apart from being a beefier machine and increased game settings the desktop has the same BAIN setup ... Going to throw my laptop save across on to the desktop and see if I can replicate.

Edit: I cant replicate it with my save, or even loading up my eldests last save (which unfortunately has been written over by a more recent one), going back to the sanctuary everyone sleeps normally.

Possibly an oblivion random weirdness. The only thing affecting DB sanctuary in our setup is Khettienna's Better Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, but I cant see that having an effect on NPC sleeping habits.

I have installed this mod with SM Combat Hide (a comeback to an old tried mod, which once I found had some unbalancing sides) and Stealth Overhaul Redux (not the last Stealth Overhaul 1.4 which have some flaws). I'm in testing phase (My character level 36, Sneak, Security, Marksman = 82). So far most of the tweaks are working, except "Very Close Actors with a line of sight".
HUD Status Bars, good but some peoples may not find this immersive.

I tried this out with Attack and Hide. It was indeed a bit hard with Medium, so I went to Easy, but that was pretty much like what I had before I started. One odd thing, though - I was outdoors, during the day, and fired a bow at a xivilai and clannfear enemies about 100 yards away (far enough that I needed bow zoom to see them. They immediately spotted me and came running toward me.

I still want to give Sneak Penalties a fair try-out with Combat Hide, but I also want keep a guard improvement mod (I don't normally incur bounties, but the psychic guards irritate the crap out of me). Combat Hide conflicts with RGO, and No Psychic Guards is recommended to start with a new game, as it "might mess up a save game". I'll check around for something.

Yep, the skill penalties are all done via modav2 (like in timed blocking, which I use ), so I wouldn't know why they should affect any skill system.

i wish this was also the case for Stealth Overhaul. Right now i am only using this Sneak penalties mod. I cant use overhaul other than the dagger damage bonus due to messing up my skills for nGCD, and cant use Combat Hide due to Reeners Guard overhaul. havent gotten to do much experimentation yet but hope it wont be too difficult or easy without the other mods included that you had. btw, piiip is worth checking out too as someone mentioned, i use it.

Known Issues
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Any mod that attempts to modify base attributes or health using "player.setAV" will have its effects removed at the next skill advance or message box. Only a small number of existing quests and mods do this, as the vast majority use "player.modAV" or fortify abilities which work fine with this mod and is the recommended way to do it.

Any mod that modifies base skills using "player.setAV" will affect attributes and level at the next skill advance or message box. If base skills are decreased this way, then attributes and level can go backwards. No mods should do this for temporary skill changes, instead they should be using "player.modAV", "player.modAV2", or fortify/drain abilities.

Any mod that advances minor skills using "advancePCSkill" or "modPCSkill" without using "SetPCMiscStat 2, n" or showing a message box will not affect attributes until the next message box or skill advance. Skills advanced with these functions do not show up as a "Skill Increase" in "GetPcMiscStat". "GetPCMajorSkillUps" and "GetPcMiscStat" changes are used to trigger recalculating attributes. Displaying a message box also triggers recalculating to work around this limitation.

Any mod that applies large skill or attribute drain abilities that drain the stat to zero will delay recalculation until the drain ability is removed. These large truncated drain abilities make it impossible to correctly calculate experience and set attributes. A debug message will be printed to the console when recalculation is aborted because of large drain abilities.

Hi, I′m getting missing mesh markers on bodies I have looted. The markers appear only on bodies that I return to/walk by later on, on my way out of a dungeon. I confirmed with refscope the markers are from this mod. I can get you a Refscope log if you need it, at the moment I don′t have one.


I′m using MMM′s carrion rats, incase that could be related, also I′m using Enhanced Economy with an option to randomly remove (actually: hide) lootable equipment on bodies when they are activated. I don′t know if any of this is important, just reporting.

Implementing a bonus to sneak during a rain ?

Hi, I′m getting missing mesh markers on bodies I have looted. The markers appear only on bodies that I return to/walk by later on, on my way out of a dungeon. I confirmed with refscope the markers are from this mod. I can get you a Refscope log if you need it, at the moment I don′t have one.

I′m using MMM′s carrion rats, incase that could be related, also I′m using Enhanced Economy with an option to randomly remove (actually: hide) lootable equipment on bodies when they are activated. I don′t know if any of this is important, just reporting.

Rain already has a bonus due to the lower light level of rainy weather (when compared to a clear sky). Other than that I don't think it's much easier to sneak while it's raining.



That's weird. I've been playing with the mod active for a few hours now and I didn't encounter any markers. The mod adds a token to actors, that's the only item that could be responsible for the missing meshes (since it has no mesh assigned). But the token is just like any other token from other mods - it is a clothing object with 0 value and weight that has no biped slots selected and is not marked as 'playable'. Do you have any mods that (for unkown reasons) automatically assign biped slots to equipment objects that have none? Or mods that attempt to make items without slots show up? Can you maybe tell me the FormID Refscope shows so I can confirm that it is the token?

EDIT: And the token script should remove the token when the actor dies (if me.GetDead == 1 removeme).

That said, I personally always assign a null.nif for the slotless rings I use to tag or script NPCs. That way you don′t have to worry about the whole deal - even if anything makes the NPC to equip the ring, it′s not visible and as it doesn′t take any slots, it doesn′t hide parts of the NPC either.